I spent many years purchasing sailboats at the right price, fixing them up,
winning races and selling them at a profit, so I could buy a bigger and nicer
boat.  Then I purchased a 52 footer (at the right price), but poured money at
it, so it was outfited for world cruising.  When I sold it 5 years later, I
lost a dollar for every mile I sailed: about $45,000.  It was worth it.
However the economy was in a slump and I had no use for such a large boat (62
feet LOA).
Currently the economy is still good (despite the market)  There is a lot of
descrissionary income.  Interest rates are low. Fuel costs are only
"temporarily high" and there is a relitative shortage of trawlers.  If any of
these factors change, and they will at some point, then the market will fall
and boats will not longer appreciate.
There was a time, not long ago, in S. Calif. when over 3,000 large boats a
year were leaving, slips were empty and boats were selling for half of their
value.

Also, the point is well made about the "cost" of tying up money.  Many
investors would be unhappy making less than 25% on their money over the last
few years.
Boating is expensive.  I agree the bigger the boat the greater the costs and
risks.
Bob Austin
Symbol 42, whose costs are about 5% a year of the value, but free docking and
virtually no taxes.
Pensacola, FL.

Most people new to boating are often shocked by the cost of routine
maintenance and upgrades.  There is kind of a rule of thumb that costs of
boat ownership are not linier to waterline length but expotential.  In other
words it costs something like three times more to maintain a 40 foot boat
than a 30 foot boat.

The boatyards and marinas around here are full of boats on which people
spent every dime they could afford and who have no reserves for even routine
maintenance, much less upgrades or unexpected emergencies.

The sig says it all...

Rick the Mouseherder - nh2f
Westsail 32 Xapic
Annapolis, MD

A small boat and a suitcase full of money
beat a 40-footer tied to the Bank every time.

Creative graphic solutions in vinyl for your boat lettering & designs
http://www.mouseherder.com

Visit the Xapic Homepage at:
http://www.abs.net/~nh2f

The Westsail Owners Assn. :
http://www.erols.com/woax

It costs about $1500 to $2000/month to keep a 40 to 45 foot boat in
Southern California.  That includes slip, insurance, fuel, taxes, fixing
things that break, and doing all the work yourself except for a bi-annual
haulout.  Almost no one owns a house with dockage.

This cost is assuming you use the boat often.  Spending weekends sitting in
the slip would cost far less.

Does not include bait and fishing supplies !
Jim Baumgart
Join the virtual Cruise 2000 at  http://www.indiscipline.org

Oh, in the previous post, where I said $2000/month, that included the loan
payment.

I see no reason to have "money tied up" in the boat that could otherwise be
invested.  We have a 8 percent, 15 year loan, with 10% down.  We could have
paid cash for the boat, but instead we have 90% of the money in a
comfortable mutual fund earning significantly more than 8%.  The boat
qualifies as a 2nd home and the interest is tax deductable.

-JimB
Jim Baumgart
Join the virtual Cruise 2000 at  http://www.indiscipline.org

I've been following this discussion of maintenance and running costs of
boats with interest. Some of the numbers being bandied about certainly make
me glad I live in Sydney where the cost of boating is much less. Marinas
are fairly few and small here, and most boats are kept on swinging moorings
licensed from the Maritime Services Board of NSW. The cost varies depending
on the demand in different areas of the harbour, but my mooring costs AUD
700 per year plus the cost of providing the hardware (the MSB only provides
the right to moor, not the gear), and having it lifted for servicing every
year (about AUD 250-300). Of course you get no electrical power or other
facilities, but it is relatively cheap and there's no charge related to the
boat's length. I've never used a marina, but I understand they charge about
as much per month as a moored boat costs per year. The only annual tax on a
boat is MSB registration which varies with length. It's about AUD 60 per
year for a 10m sailing yacht.

I have been a bit puzzled to read comments about the "cost" of having money
"tied up" in a boat when it could be invested to earn interest. No doubt
that's true, but let's be honest here. A boat just isn't a sensible
"investment" at all. If you want an investment, buy stocks or bonds or
mutual funds or real estate or something, but don't count on a boat to do
anything but lose money and you won't be disappointed. Buy a boat if you
want to go boating, and enjoy it.

As to the rule of thumb about running costs being about 10% of the initial
cost of the boat, that estimate certainly seems high, but it's probably
sensible really. Every boat owner I've ever met (including me) tends to
understate the costs even to themselves, and most of them are scheming and
dreaming about sailing a bigger boat if they could just swing the cost. If
you use a conservative number and actually spend less (and no nasty
unexpected expense pops up in your non-boating life...), smile and take the
wife to an expensive restaurant. There's someone on the list who uses a sig
line that reads something like "A small boat and a bag of money beats a 40
footer tied to the Bank". I couldn't agree more.

Regards, Robert Bryett
Sydney, Australia.
mailto:rbryett@ibm.net

Dear Bob,

SuzieQ is down to the finish line, pun intended.  We hope to be in the water by
October.  We appreciate the advise on finishing thus far and hope you can shed
some light on a few other problems.

1. If a mahogany board has been treated with a modified tung oil with UVI what
   needs to be done to use a polyurethane varnish?

2. The other way around,  for interior applications can a surface that has a
   polyurethane varnish be kept up with tung oil ?  or other products?

3. Can modified tung oil be used to keep up exterior bright work with a satin,
   not gloss?

Peter Denton