Empathy List Archives

BG

Bruce Griffiths

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 12:05 PM

Magnus Danielson wrote:

Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

My main concern with the low frequency pole in the sound card is the
quality of the R/C used. You can certainly model what ever you have.
If they used an aluminum electrolytic for the "C" it may not be the
same next time you check it ....

Do consider to bypass it. This is routinely done both by audio folks
and various other. The cap is there to remove DC offsets which can be
problematic in audio editing. I am quite sure you feel at home with
the soldering iron to do that upgrade.

On a 10 Hz system, a 1 Hz pole is probably not an issue. It might get
in the way with a 1 Hz beat note.
Another thing I have only seen in passing: "Sigma Delta's have poor
low frequency noise characteristics". I haven't dug into it to see if
that's really true or not. If you buy your own ADC's, you certainly
would not be restricted to a Sigma Delta.

Strange, most Sigma Delta's I have seen would have the opposite said
about them. It's the upper end that is problematic.

Even with a cheap pre-built FPGA board, you could look into higher
sample rates than a conventional sound card. You would drop back to
16 bits, but it might be worth it.

In fact, one of my FPGA demo-board does 3 MS at 14 bit. Crappy for
audio, but maybe good enough for this application.

Cheers,
Magnus

_

A pity that there is a relatively low bandwidth PGA used to drive the
inputs of that dual channel simultaneous sampling ADC.

Bruce

Magnus Danielson wrote: > Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> My main concern with the low frequency pole in the sound card is the >> quality of the R/C used. You can certainly model what ever you have. >> If they used an aluminum electrolytic for the "C" it may not be the >> same next time you check it .... > > Do consider to bypass it. This is routinely done both by audio folks > and various other. The cap is there to remove DC offsets which can be > problematic in audio editing. I am quite sure you feel at home with > the soldering iron to do that upgrade. > >> On a 10 Hz system, a 1 Hz pole is probably not an issue. It might get >> in the way with a 1 Hz beat note. >> Another thing I have only seen in passing: "Sigma Delta's have poor >> low frequency noise characteristics". I haven't dug into it to see if >> that's really true or not. If you buy your own ADC's, you certainly >> would not be restricted to a Sigma Delta. > > Strange, most Sigma Delta's I have seen would have the opposite said > about them. It's the upper end that is problematic. > >> Even with a cheap pre-built FPGA board, you could look into higher >> sample rates than a conventional sound card. You would drop back to >> 16 bits, but it might be worth it. > > In fact, one of my FPGA demo-board does 3 MS at 14 bit. Crappy for > audio, but maybe good enough for this application. > > Cheers, > Magnus > > _ A pity that there is a relatively low bandwidth PGA used to drive the inputs of that dual channel simultaneous sampling ADC. Bruce

SC

SAL CORNACCHIA

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:44 PM

Can someone help with a Tbolt 35757256 built 6/2/05 A002206,G1 Rev E, I have built a power supply and acquired a GPS Antenna and got it assembled and appears to be working properly except for the 1 PPS output, (NO OUTPUT MEASURABLE) I would appreciate any help possible.
Thank You,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

sure or other use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this notification in error, please immediately contact the sender and delete the material.

From: Bruce Griffiths bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 4:16:46 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV

The tight PLL method doesn't directly produce the average frequency over Tau.
As explained in (see snapshot of relevant section):
NIST special Publication 1065 Handbook of Frequency Stability Analysis http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/2220.pdf
the average frequency deviations for averaging time Tau are needed for the calculation.
You need to sample at a sufficiently high rate to avoid aliasing and average (ie integrate) the individual EFC samples.

If one uses phase measures then the fluctuations in the frequency averages can easily and directly calculated from the difference between the phase measured at time intervals separated by Tau.

Bruce

WarrenS wrote:

Bruce said:

Thus NIST and others quietly dropped this method several decades ago.

Could it be another reason?
I'll bet that was after they wanted to do better than 1e14 resolution AND had unlimited amounts of time and Money,
Something most time Nuts are not blessed with. I Never said it was the BEST way.
JUST given the goal, which was 1e13 in one second, there is not a simpler and cheaper way to do it.
And nothing you said counter that point.

The frequency measures need to be integrated (either implicitly or explicitly) to produce phase measures which can then be used to calculate ADEV, MDEV etc.

Well ONE of us certainly has something backward.
To calculate ADEV, MDEV etc. YOU need Freq Differences.
The first thing that happens when phase is used is that it is turned into Freq by taking the difference between each sample.
Integrated Freq data, which is what "Tight Phase-Lock Loop Method" gives you directly (no Phase conversion needed),
Need not FIRST turned into Phase so that it can then be turned back into Freq.
BUT in any case there is no difference in the noise, for a given bandwidth, If you don't run out of digits and You have enough resolution.
The "Tight Phase-Lock Loop Method" can EASY get sub pS resolution, which is better than most other ways.
AND don't need filters and slue rate control and multistage limiters and on & on to do it, an RC works fine to replace all the stuff.

ws

----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Griffiths" bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:11 PM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV

Sounds good but you still haven't found its Achilles heel:

The frequency measures need to be integrated (either implicitly or explicitly) to produce phase measures which can then be used to calculate ADEV, MDEV etc.
The major problem is that integration amplifies the small errors that are inevitably present..
In practice (except for very noisy sources) the technique isnt particularly useful for Tau more than a few times the inverse PLL bandwidth.

Thus NIST and others quietly dropped this method several decades ago.
This is alluded to in Steins recent paper availble on the Symmetricom website:

The Allan Variance – Challenges and Opportunities

Bruce

WarrenS wrote:

Peat said:

I would appreciate any comments or observations on the topic of apparatus with demonstrated stability measurements.
My motivation is to discover the SIMPLEST scheme for making stability measurements at the 1E-13 in 1s performance level.

If you accept that the measurement is going to limited by the Reference Osc,
for Low COST and SIMPLE, with the ability to measure ADEVs at that level,
Can't beat a simple analog version of NIST's "Tight Phase-Lock Loop Method of measuring Freq stability".
http://tf.nist.gov/phase/Properties/one.htm#oneone Fig 1.7

By replacing the "Voltage to freq converter, Freq counter& Printer with a Radio shack type PC data logging DVM,
It can be up and running from scratch in under an Hr, with no high end test equipment needed.
If you want performance that exceeds the best of most DMTD at low Tau it takes a little more work
and a higher speed oversampling ADC data logger and a good offset voltage.

I must add this is not a popular solution (Or a general Purpose one) but
IF you know analog and have a GOOD osc with EFC to use for the reference,
as far as I've been able to determine it is the BEST SIMPLE answer that allows High performance.
Limited by My HP10811 Ref OSC, I'm getting better than 1e-12 in 0.1 sec (at 30 Hz Bandwidth)

Basic modified NIST Block Diag attached:
The NIST paper sums it up quite nicely:
'It is not difficult to achieve a sensitivity of a part in e14 per Hz resolution
so one has excellent precision capabilities with this system.'

This does not address your other question of ADEV vs MDEV,
What I've described is just a simple way to get the Low cost, GOOD Raw data.
What you then do with that Data is a different subject.

You can run the raw data thru one of the many ADEV programs out there, 'Plotter' being my choice.

Have fun
ws

[time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV
Pete Rawson peterawson at earthlink.net
Sat Feb 6 03:59:18 UTC 2010

Efforts are underway to develop a low cost DMTD apparatus with
demonstrated stability measurements of 1E-13 in 1s. It seems that
existing TI counters can reach this goal in 10s. (using MDEV estimate
or 100+s. using ADEV estimate). The question is; does the MDEV tool
provide an appropriate measure of stability in this time range, or is
the ADEV estimate a more correct answer?

The TI performance I'm referring to is the 20-25 ps, single shot TI,
typical for theHP5370A/B, the SR620 or the CNT81/91. I have data
from my CNT81showing MDEV< 1E-13 in 10s. and I believe the
other counters behave similarly.

I would appreciate any comments or observations on this topic.
My motivation is to discover the simplest scheme for making
stability measurements at this performance level; this is NOT
even close to the state-of-the-art, but can still be useful.

Pete Rawson

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Can someone help with a Tbolt 35757256 built 6/2/05 A002206,G1 Rev E, I have built a power supply and acquired a GPS Antenna and got it assembled and appears to be working properly except for the 1 PPS output, (NO OUTPUT MEASURABLE) I would appreciate any help possible. Thank You, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) sure or other use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this notification in error, please immediately contact the sender and delete the material. ________________________________ From: Bruce Griffiths <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sat, February 6, 2010 4:16:46 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV The tight PLL method doesn't directly produce the average frequency over Tau. As explained in (see snapshot of relevant section): NIST special Publication 1065 Handbook of Frequency Stability Analysis <http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/2220.pdf> the average frequency deviations for averaging time Tau are needed for the calculation. You need to sample at a sufficiently high rate to avoid aliasing and average (ie integrate) the individual EFC samples. If one uses phase measures then the fluctuations in the frequency averages can easily and directly calculated from the difference between the phase measured at time intervals separated by Tau. Bruce WarrenS wrote: > Bruce said: > >> Thus NIST and others quietly dropped this method several decades ago. > Could it be another reason? > I'll bet that was after they wanted to do better than 1e14 resolution AND had unlimited amounts of time and Money, > Something most time Nuts are not blessed with. I Never said it was the BEST way. > JUST given the goal, which was 1e13 in one second, there is not a simpler and cheaper way to do it. > And nothing you said counter that point. > > >> The frequency measures need to be integrated (either implicitly or explicitly) to produce phase measures which can then be used to calculate ADEV, MDEV etc. > > Well ONE of us certainly has something backward. > To calculate ADEV, MDEV etc. YOU need Freq Differences. > The first thing that happens when phase is used is that it is turned into Freq by taking the difference between each sample. > Integrated Freq data, which is what "Tight Phase-Lock Loop Method" gives you directly (no Phase conversion needed), > Need not FIRST turned into Phase so that it can then be turned back into Freq. > BUT in any case there is no difference in the noise, for a given bandwidth, If you don't run out of digits and You have enough resolution. > The "Tight Phase-Lock Loop Method" can EASY get sub pS resolution, which is better than most other ways. > AND don't need filters and slue rate control and multistage limiters and on & on to do it, an RC works fine to replace all the stuff. > > ws > > ***************** > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Griffiths" <bruce.griffiths@xtra.co.nz> > To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2010 12:11 PM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV > > >> Sounds good but you still haven't found its Achilles heel: >> >> The frequency measures need to be integrated (either implicitly or explicitly) to produce phase measures which can then be used to calculate ADEV, MDEV etc. >> The major problem is that integration amplifies the small errors that are inevitably present.. >> In practice (except for very noisy sources) the technique isnt particularly useful for Tau more than a few times the inverse PLL bandwidth. >> >> Thus NIST and others quietly dropped this method several decades ago. >> This is alluded to in Steins recent paper availble on the Symmetricom website: >> >> *The Allan Variance – Challenges and Opportunities* >> >> >> Bruce >> >> WarrenS wrote: >>> Peat said: >>> >>>> I would appreciate any comments or observations on the topic of apparatus with demonstrated stability measurements. >>>> My motivation is to discover the SIMPLEST scheme for making stability measurements at the 1E-13 in 1s performance level. >>>> >>> >>> If you accept that the measurement is going to limited by the Reference Osc, >>> for Low COST and SIMPLE, with the ability to measure ADEVs at that level, >>> Can't beat a simple analog version of NIST's "Tight Phase-Lock Loop Method of measuring Freq stability". >>> http://tf.nist.gov/phase/Properties/one.htm#oneone Fig 1.7 >>> >>> >>> By replacing the "Voltage to freq converter, Freq counter& Printer with a Radio shack type PC data logging DVM, >>> It can be up and running from scratch in under an Hr, with no high end test equipment needed. >>> If you want performance that exceeds the best of most DMTD at low Tau it takes a little more work >>> and a higher speed oversampling ADC data logger and a good offset voltage. >>> >>> I must add this is not a popular solution (Or a general Purpose one) but >>> IF you know analog and have a GOOD osc with EFC to use for the reference, >>> as far as I've been able to determine it is the BEST SIMPLE answer that allows High performance. >>> Limited by My HP10811 Ref OSC, I'm getting better than 1e-12 in 0.1 sec (at 30 Hz Bandwidth) >>> >>> Basic modified NIST Block Diag attached: >>> The NIST paper sums it up quite nicely: >>> 'It is not difficult to achieve a sensitivity of a part in e14 per Hz resolution >>> so one has excellent precision capabilities with this system.' >>> >>> This does not address your other question of ADEV vs MDEV, >>> What I've described is just a simple way to get the Low cost, GOOD Raw data. >>> What you then do with that Data is a different subject. >>> >>> You can run the raw data thru one of the many ADEV programs out there, 'Plotter' being my choice. >>> >>> >>> Have fun >>> ws >>> >>> ************* >>> >>> [time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV >>> Pete Rawson peterawson at earthlink.net >>> Sat Feb 6 03:59:18 UTC 2010 >>> >>> Efforts are underway to develop a low cost DMTD apparatus with >>> demonstrated stability measurements of 1E-13 in 1s. It seems that >>> existing TI counters can reach this goal in 10s. (using MDEV estimate >>> or 100+s. using ADEV estimate). The question is; does the MDEV tool >>> provide an appropriate measure of stability in this time range, or is >>> the ADEV estimate a more correct answer? >>> >>> The TI performance I'm referring to is the 20-25 ps, single shot TI, >>> typical for theHP5370A/B, the SR620 or the CNT81/91. I have data >>> from my CNT81showing MDEV< 1E-13 in 10s. and I believe the >>> other counters behave similarly. >>> >>> I would appreciate any comments or observations on this topic. >>> My motivation is to discover the simplest scheme for making >>> stability measurements at this performance level; this is NOT >>> even close to the state-of-the-art, but can still be useful. >>> >>> Pete Rawson >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

SW

Stan, W1LE

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:47 PM

Hello Sal,

What are you monitoring the PPS output with ??

It is a short duration pulse.

What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ?

What does Lady Heather indicate ?
(She is just waiting to massage your numbers.)

Stan, W1LE

Hello Sal, What are you monitoring the PPS output with ?? It is a short duration pulse. What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ? What does Lady Heather indicate ? (She is just waiting to massage your numbers.) Stan, W1LE

DC

David C. Partridge

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 3:52 PM

IIRC the pulse on the 1pps output of the TBolt is very narrow, so it is
pretty easy to miss.

You may need to use a pulse stretcher to see it.

Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of SAL CORNACCHIA
Sent: 07 February 2010 15:45
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Can someone help with a Tbolt 35757256 built 6/2/05 A002206,G1 Rev E, I have
built a power supply and acquired a GPS Antenna and got it assembled and
appears to be working properly except for the 1 PPS output, (NO OUTPUT
MEASURABLE) I would appreciate any help possible.
Thank You,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

IIRC the pulse on the 1pps output of the TBolt is very narrow, so it is pretty easy to miss. You may need to use a pulse stretcher to see it. Dave -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of SAL CORNACCHIA Sent: 07 February 2010 15:45 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Can someone help with a Tbolt 35757256 built 6/2/05 A002206,G1 Rev E, I have built a power supply and acquired a GPS Antenna and got it assembled and appears to be working properly except for the 1 PPS output, (NO OUTPUT MEASURABLE) I would appreciate any help possible. Thank You, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

SC

SAL CORNACCHIA

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:06 PM

Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: "Stan, W1LE" stanw1le@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hello Sal,

What are you monitoring the PPS output with ??

It is a short duration pulse.

What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ?

What does Lady Heather indicate ?
(She is just waiting to massage your numbers.)

Stan, W1LE

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green. Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) ________________________________ From: "Stan, W1LE" <stanw1le@verizon.net> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Hello Sal, What are you monitoring the PPS output with ?? It is a short duration pulse. What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ? What does Lady Heather indicate ? (She is just waiting to massage your numbers.) Stan, W1LE _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

SC

SAL CORNACCHIA

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:08 PM

It is barely visable on the Tektronix 485.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

The information contained in this e-mail transmission is privileged and/or confidential intended solely for the exclusive use of the individual addressee. If you are not the intended addressee you are hereby notified that any retention, disclosure or other use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this notification in error, please immediately contact the sender and delete the material.

From: David C. Partridge david.partridge@dsl.pipex.com
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:52:03 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

IIRC the pulse on the 1pps output of the TBolt is very narrow, so it is
pretty easy to miss.

You may need to use a pulse stretcher to see it.

Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of SAL CORNACCHIA
Sent: 07 February 2010 15:45
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Can someone help with a Tbolt 35757256 built 6/2/05 A002206,G1 Rev E, I have
built a power supply and acquired a GPS Antenna and got it assembled and
appears to be working properly except for the 1 PPS output, (NO OUTPUT
MEASURABLE) I would appreciate any help possible.
Thank You,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

It is barely visable on the Tektronix 485. Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) The information contained in this e-mail transmission is privileged and/or confidential intended solely for the exclusive use of the individual addressee. If you are not the intended addressee you are hereby notified that any retention, disclosure or other use is strictly prohibited. If you have received this notification in error, please immediately contact the sender and delete the material. ________________________________ From: David C. Partridge <david.partridge@dsl.pipex.com> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:52:03 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt IIRC the pulse on the 1pps output of the TBolt is very narrow, so it is pretty easy to miss. You may need to use a pulse stretcher to see it. Dave -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of SAL CORNACCHIA Sent: 07 February 2010 15:45 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Can someone help with a Tbolt 35757256 built 6/2/05 A002206,G1 Rev E, I have built a power supply and acquired a GPS Antenna and got it assembled and appears to be working properly except for the 1 PPS output, (NO OUTPUT MEASURABLE) I would appreciate any help possible. Thank You, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

BC

Bob Camp

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:26 PM

Hi

The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling. A
sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over
most of the sweep.

Bob

From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" salccor@rogers.com
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: "Stan, W1LE" stanw1le@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hello Sal,

What are you monitoring the PPS output with ??

It is a short duration pulse.

What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ?

What does Lady Heather indicate ?
(She is just waiting to massage your numbers.)

Stan, W1LE

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling. A sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over most of the sweep. Bob -------------------------------------------------- From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" <salccor@rogers.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green. > Best regards, > Sal C. Cornacchia > Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Stan, W1LE" <stanw1le@verizon.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > > Hello Sal, > > What are you monitoring the PPS output with ?? > > It is a short duration pulse. > > What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ? > > What does Lady Heather indicate ? > (She is just waiting to massage your numbers.) > > Stan, W1LE > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > >

SC

SAL CORNACCHIA

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:42 PM

Hi Bob,
The pulse is barely visible on the Tektronix 485 it appears to be a very low output.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: Bob Camp lists@cq.nu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:26:16 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hi

The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling.. A
sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over
most of the sweep.

Bob

From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" salccor@rogers.com
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: "Stan, W1LE" stanw1le@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hello Sal,

What are you monitoring the PPS output with ??

It is a short duration pulse.

What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ?

What does Lady Heather indicate ?
(She is just waiting to massage your numbers.)

Stan, W1LE

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo..com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
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Hi Bob, The pulse is barely visible on the Tektronix 485 it appears to be a very low output. Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) ________________________________ From: Bob Camp <lists@cq.nu> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:26:16 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Hi The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling.. A sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over most of the sweep. Bob -------------------------------------------------- From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" <salccor@rogers.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green. > Best regards, > Sal C. Cornacchia > Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Stan, W1LE" <stanw1le@verizon.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > > Hello Sal, > > What are you monitoring the PPS output with ?? > > It is a short duration pulse. > > What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ? > > What does Lady Heather indicate ? > (She is just waiting to massage your numbers.) > > Stan, W1LE > > > > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo..com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

DJ

Didier Juges

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 4:51 PM

The pulse is narrow, but it should be a full 5V amplitude. The driver is pretty beefy, the amplitude does dot drop appreciably when loaded with 50 ohms on mine.

Didier KO4BB

------------------------ Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-----Original Message-----
From: SAL CORNACCHIA salccor@rogers.com
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:42:49
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hi Bob,
The pulse is barely visible on the Tektronix 485 it appears to be a very low output.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: Bob Camp lists@cq.nu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:26:16 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hi

The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling.. A
sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over
most of the sweep.

Bob

From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" salccor@rogers.com
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: "Stan, W1LE" stanw1le@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hello Sal,

What are you monitoring the PPS output with ??

It is a short duration pulse.

What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ?

What does Lady Heather indicate ?
(She is just waiting to massage your numbers.)

Stan, W1LE

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo..com
To unsubscribe, go to
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The pulse is narrow, but it should be a full 5V amplitude. The driver is pretty beefy, the amplitude does dot drop appreciably when loaded with 50 ohms on mine. Didier KO4BB ------------------------ Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -----Original Message----- From: SAL CORNACCHIA <salccor@rogers.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:42:49 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Hi Bob, The pulse is barely visible on the Tektronix 485 it appears to be a very low output. Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) ________________________________ From: Bob Camp <lists@cq.nu> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:26:16 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Hi The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling.. A sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over most of the sweep. Bob -------------------------------------------------- From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" <salccor@rogers.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green. > Best regards, > Sal C. Cornacchia > Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) > > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: "Stan, W1LE" <stanw1le@verizon.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > > Hello Sal, > > What are you monitoring the PPS output with ?? > > It is a short duration pulse. > > What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ? > > What does Lady Heather indicate ? > (She is just waiting to massage your numbers.) > > Stan, W1LE > > > > >_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo..com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

SC

SAL CORNACCHIA

Sun, Feb 7, 2010 5:06 PM

Hi Didier,

When the 50 ohms termination is switch on the oscilloscope there is a tiny positive dot deflecting every second, it appears to have a very low output.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: Didier Juges didier@cox.net
To: Time-Nuts time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:51:15 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

The pulse is narrow, but it should be a full 5V amplitude. The driver is pretty beefy, the amplitude does dot drop appreciably when loaded with 50 ohms on mine.

Didier KO4BB

------------------------ Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...

-----Original Message-----
From: SAL CORNACCHIA salccor@rogers.com
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:42:49
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hi Bob,
The pulse is barely visible on the Tektronix 485 it appears to be a very low output.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: Bob Camp lists@cq.nu
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo..com>
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:26:16 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hi

The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling.. A
sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over
most of the sweep.

Bob

From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" salccor@rogers.com
Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM
To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement"
<time-nuts@febo..com>
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green.
Best regards,
Sal C. Cornacchia
Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.)

From: "Stan, W1LE" stanw1le@verizon.net
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt

Hello Sal,

What are you monitoring the PPS output with ??

It is a short duration pulse.

What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ?

What does Lady Heather indicate ?
(She is just waiting to massage your numbers.)

Stan, W1LE

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo..com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

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To unsubscribe, go to
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To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Hi Didier, When the 50 ohms termination is switch on the oscilloscope there is a tiny positive dot deflecting every second, it appears to have a very low output. Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) ________________________________ From: Didier Juges <didier@cox.net> To: Time-Nuts <time-nuts@febo.com> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:51:15 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt The pulse is narrow, but it should be a full 5V amplitude. The driver is pretty beefy, the amplitude does dot drop appreciably when loaded with 50 ohms on mine. Didier KO4BB ------------------------ Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things... -----Original Message----- From: SAL CORNACCHIA <salccor@rogers.com> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2010 08:42:49 To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement<time-nuts@febo.com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Hi Bob, The pulse is barely visible on the Tektronix 485 it appears to be a very low output. Best regards, Sal C. Cornacchia Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) ________________________________ From: Bob Camp <lists@cq.nu> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement <time-nuts@febo..com> Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 11:26:16 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt Hi The 5345 should see it if it's set to 50 ohm termination and DC coupling.. A sweep of the trigger from about 1.5 to 3.5 volts should show it there over most of the sweep. Bob -------------------------------------------------- From: "SAL CORNACCHIA" <salccor@rogers.com> Sent: Sunday, February 07, 2010 11:06 AM To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" <time-nuts@febo..com> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > Oscilloscope and 5345A Counter, the Tbolt software shows all green. > Best regards, > Sal C. Cornacchia > Electronic RF Microwave Engineer (Ret.) > > > > > > > >________________________________ > From: "Stan, W1LE" <stanw1le@verizon.net> > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > <time-nuts@febo.com> > Sent: Sun, February 7, 2010 10:47:42 AM > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] No 1 PPS output on a Tbolt > > Hello Sal, > > What are you monitoring the PPS output with ?? > > It is a short duration pulse. > > What does the TboltMON software (available at the trimble website) show ? > > What does Lady Heather indicate ? > (She is just waiting to massage your numbers.) > > Stan, W1LE > > > > >_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo..com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >_______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

Re: [time-nuts] ADEV vs MDEV