Hi All,

In our continuing struggle to figure out where to go from here, in addition
to studying commercial boat conversions and thanks to those who replied
off-list, we are investigating the designs of Michael Kasten, particularly
the "Coaster 40 http://www.kastenmarine.com/coaster40.htm ". This is an
aluminum boat and uses Kasten's flat panel buildup method - similar to the
"stitch and glue" wood construction but in metal - in which the frames and
panels are all NC cut and then welded together. Kasten is quite expensive in
his designs. Plans are like $12 Large and the NC files another $12 Big Ones
but for some reason this boat's plans are less, around $4,000.

My question, which I would solicit off list, is: Are any T&T list users
familiar with his boats or the quality of his designs? Do any list users
know of shops who will affordably NC cut the sheet for the "kit"?  Do any of
you know of yard, preferably inland, who can lay it up and weld the
structure?

Our whole purpose is to get a better and  more suitable long range cruiser
without spending more than we spent for our house, possible a fools errand
we realize but we gotta try. In order to keep the costs down we would do
plumbing, wiring and such ourselves or with contractors dockside and the
interior with a friend who is also a wonderful cabinet maker. The whole idea
is to keep the cost down and the boat will be simple, very nice we would
hope, but without trying to emulate the opulence we see in the ads in the
pages of Passagemaker (not a condemnation, love the mag). Frankly, we love
beautiful interiors, glowing teak and mahogany everywhere with gleaming
fixtures, but we don't need it. We can live aboard more simply. We aspire to
clean and neatly functional comfort.

Also, anybody out there who's done this, build from scratch that is? Did
your cost estimate pan out (silly question, it's a boat after all)?

Ideas?

Rob & Robin Dorsey
Best Revenge
Moored: Aurora, IN on the Ohio

Rob,

To answer your questions about the "next boat":

Are any T&T list users
Familiar with his boats or the quality of his designs?

I am building a Kasten designed boat -- what Michael calls Valdemar 53
(http://kastenmarine.Com/valdemar52.htm) and what Debbie and I call "Passage
of Time."  I started looking at designing and building a boat after reading
Buehler's The Troller Yacht and Leisham's re-write of Passagemaking Under
Power and then being unable to find a production boat that really fit my
needs and desires.  I then ran across Kasten's sight and fell in love with
the idea of creating my own design, a boat that had exactly what I wanted
and did not have what I didn't want.  I contacted Michael and started the
process.  There were things I liked about the existing designs and things I
did not, So I ended up drawing a layout on a piece of paper and sent it to
him.  That began "Passage of Time."

Designing and then finding a builder and then getting it built has been a
lot of work and effort but has been a ton of fun.  This list has been
extremely helpful to me along the way as I had to make inevitable choices
that plague all boat owners between the long list of what they want, what
they can afford, and what will serve their needs best.

Michael Kasten has been an absolute pleasure to work with.  He has a wealth
of knowledge that he freely shares in the design process.  If you e-mail him
to ask some of your preliminary questions, I think that yu will see that he
ll send you a very detailed response.

While we started our boat design process from scratch, as you know, you can
purchase a design -- like the Coaster -- that is "ready to go.  That is
certainly less expensive than beginning from square one.  You can also take
one of the existing designs and have Michael "tweak" it some to fit your
needs.

My Kasten boat is well on its way to hitting the water.  It is being built
by YachtSmiths International in Halifax and you can see what it looks like
from their site (http://yachtsmiths.com/valdemar_52_gallery_01.htm).  The
hull is nearing completion.

I have been extremely pleased with the quality of Michael's design and the
entire design process.

The NC files issue. Do any list users know of shops who will affordably NC
cut the sheet for the "kit"?  Do any of you know of yard, preferably inland,
who can lay it up and weld the structure?

The NC files are expensive and there is an article on Kasten's site that
describes why he believes that in the end it saves money.  In my build
experience and in discussing the issue with potential issues, I have found
his advise to be accurate.  The trick to finding a place to cut the plates
is to locate one close to you in order to avoid excessive transportation
costs.  Builders will know the sources.  Michael was able to provide me
with some metal cutting sources as well.

I spent a lot of time investigating potential builders.  Michael gave me a
list of people to consider that were spread out across the United States and
I found a few others.  I sent letters and plans to a narrowed down list of
about 10 or 11 soliciting estimates and information.  From the responses, I
narrowed down the list to a final 2 and then went and visited each.  From
those visits and from their bids I selected YachtSmiths International.

You will find that it is more difficult to find a good builder that can
assemble and weld an aluminum hull as opposed to a steel hull.  It makes the
search a little more challenging.

The cost estimate issue:

So far, I am generally on track with the original estimate.  Michael's
estimate information was accurate.  I went over what I had expected by a
little bit, but those "cost overruns" were entirely due to me making changes
along the way that required some things to be undone and redone (example --
I originally had the design include active stabilizers, but then switched
late in the process to paravanes).

My build estimate is so far so good (and I continue to keep my fingers
crossed).  The value of the US Dollar has suffered as against the Canadian
Dollar over the last year and that has been the biggest hit to the build
budget.

Build it yourself (or parts of it)

I have enjoyed WATCHING the boat being built.  I have four thumbs and (as
Debbie reminds me) work more than full time, so there was no way in the
world that I was going to actually try to build any part of this thing.  In
researching whether I wanted to jump off this cliff to design and build the
dream, I found a group called The Metal Boat Society.  They focus on the
process of actually building your own metal (steel, aluminum, etcetera) boat
You can find them on the web at:

http://www.metalboatsociety.com/

There is an online forum that you can join to find out all kinds of
information.  I believe that I located a few builder recommendations from
that source.  The Metal Boat Society has a yearly get together Festival
which always sounds interesting but has always to my knowledge been in the
Seattle, Washington area (which is a hike from Florida -- so I have never
been).

The Metal Boat Society also publishes a quarterly review called the Metal
Boat Quarterly.  It was a helpful source for me to read about the build
process and common problems.  A listing of the back issues and their table
of contents can be found at:

http://www.metalboatsociety.org/backissues.htm

I am still a member of the Society, although given where I am now in the
process, it is much less relevant to me.  I would encourage you to join and
explore the site.  When I was doing design and build research I obtained all
the Metal Boat Quarterly issues.

Feel free to follow up with any specific questions that you may have.
Welcome to the journey!

Alan Wagner
Tampa, Florida
Building Kasten designed "Passage of Time
http://yachtsmiths.com/valdemar_52_gallery_01.htm