A couple of you have taken me up on my offer to relate my 8 month saga of frustrated attempts to buy a boat. I hope what follows also answers your specific questions. The itch began last July when some friends from long ago phoned to say they had docked in one of the local marinas, and asked that us to join them for lunch aboard. They have a beautiful 1989 Canoe Cove 42' sedan. (It's a locally-built high quality, semi-displacement hull, available in lengths from about 36' to 53' in length, but no longer in production.) Afterward, my wife remarked that she could see herself "on a boat like that", and I quickly started to scratch. I soon discovered that buying a power boat is even worse than buying a used car, which everyone knows is a nightmare. Nevertheless, at least when you consider a car, you can take it for a test drive before making an offer. However, unless the boat is local, you get to see it once, but that viewing does not permit you to test any of its complex and very expensive systems. Usually can't even start the engines. Everything needed to evaluate the condition of the vessel and its asking price is either incredibly superficial or taken on faith, despite the fact that for almost all of us, the amount of money involved in these transactions is more than significant. Nevertheless, because we are powerless to change the system, we make our offers in hope, if not knowledge. Then come the surveys, when one's faith in everything, but particularly human nature, is sorely tried. Although I had owned sailboats up to 26', I was completely unfamiliar with the world of power, so I started by reading everything I could find, both in print and on the Internet. Almost every piece of advice for the new buyer suggests making a list of all the qualities one needs, wants, or wishes for in his/her new dream boat. We followed that advice, and I now regret it, for I think it caused us to over-reach and to miss some good possibilities along the way. After having looked seriously at more than a hundred used boats, I can say with a reasonable degree of certainty that our "dream" boat does not exist, but if it did, we certainly couldn't afford it. Instead of wishes, we ought to have had fundamental criteria, and considered anything in addition a bonus. Now we are looking only for a boat that is safe; in decent condition; comfortable; attractive to our eyes, at least; and affordable. This last has required more "flexibility" than anticipated, for since we started our quest, our budget has forced itself upward by 50%. Not our bank account, but our budget. On the one hand, we were probably unrealistic about prices, but on the other, there simply aren't many good, affordable vessels on the used market. In the Pacific North-West, brokers are scrambling to find listings. Another aspect of my experience to date has been dealing directly with sellers and through brokers. In September, I saw a 37' sedan for sale privately. My offer was accepted, but the surveyor found a lot of dry rot in her two main bulkheads. I chickened out. Knowing what I do now, I wish I had re-negotiated what was already a good price. The next person to look at her got her for a song, and was able to have her brought up to standard and still be far ahead of the market. Chalk that one up to newbie ignorance. A couple of months later, I was attracted to a Uniflite 37' Coastal Cruiser despite the blisters. Offer accepted, went to survey, found the apparently identical Volvos were not. Different horsepowers, and transmissions with different gear ratios. Both the marine and mechanical surveyors said "Walk!" Since I was paying for their expert advice, I took it. In January, a business acquaintance told me of a 41' sedan for sale locally from an owner who lived elsewhere. It seemed to be in absolutely pristine condition. A curious negotiating process over the internet finally produced an agreed sale price. The survey was basically clean but for some delamination of the fibreglass on the deck. I got a couple of estimates for the work, and tried to negotiate an allowance only to have the vendor withdraw it from the market. Bizarre. (Meanwhile, a 50' boathouse (E16) was coincidentally brought to my attention as being privately available, so I bought it. Still no boat, but at least one successful transaction. No regrets either, since houses are even scarcer than boats, and mine might actually prove to be a good investment if I ever decide to sell.) In February, went after a 41' aft cabin through a Vancouver broker. It seemed in good shape, was well-equipped, and the asking price was reasonable. However, the broker gave me the strong impression there was some negotiating flex, so I asked his advice about putting in an offer a bit on the low side. When he replied that it was his job to make sure no insult was taken, I did so, heard nothing for several days, and finally phoned the broker to be told the boat had been sold for a price I had been willing to pay. Most unhappy with both broker and self. Later that month, chased down a distant 42' aft cabin, was reassured by the broker on the phone that this was a 2-owner boat in wonderful condition with lots of extras all in good shape. We travelled to see it, and while the exterior showed that it had been completely neglected all winter, the interior looked and smelled clean and dry. After more reassurances about the good level of maintenance including a copy of an insurance survey confirming same, we returned home, and after more than a month of negotiation, arrived at an agreed price. Had it surveyed 2 weeks ago. Virtually every one of the systems on the boat - which, of course, we hadn't been able to test during our cursory inspection - had a problem. Some were simple, most were not. The mechanical surveyor said he "thought the engines were basically okay", but he couldn't check properly because the salon carpet had been glued down as a single piece that covered both engine access hatches. However, he did determine that most of the instruments were unserviceable, that the generator starter motor was dead, that some of the hoses were soft, that the engine had oil leaks, that a lot of the wiring needed replacement... Having done all he could do, he left. Our marine surveyor had by this time worked his way from the forepeak to about mid-boat, and seeing we were alone, asked bluntly whether I was looking for a "project boat" to occupy my handyman skills - and bank account - for the next several years. He took me through his already long list of concerns, suggested I pay him for half a survey, and that we both go home. Since the broker and the owner were sitting on the flybridge, I took the broker for a walk, told him I would still buy the boat if the vendor either undertook to make the necessary repairs or reduced the price sufficiently to permit me to do so. The vendor said he couldn't, and I took the surveyor up on his offer. This afternoon, I just returned from yet another trip to Vancouver to look at a proper trawler. According to the broker on the phone, "Great shape, just needs a little detailing". On viewing, the boat had obviously seen very hard use, and amateur repairs to decks etc. were much in evidence. When I suggested that the "detailing" would entail a complete refit of the exterior and an interior make-over - and who knows about the rest? - the broker expressed surprise. He then proudly stated he had already sold that boat to - and then for - 4 different owners over the past several years. Clearly, none had kept her for very long. Am I discouraged by these experiences? Disappointed to be sure, for we really wanted to be on the water by now. However the consolation is that each failure has avoided an even bigger one later. It would have been preferable and a lot cheaper to have learned these simple lessons from someone else's mistakes, but I've always been prone to doing it the hard way. I remain hopeful, expectant, optimistic even, for however slowly, there's sure to be yet another boat on the market. As it comes along, assuming the safety, comfort, and cost factors are evident, I look really hard at the following: Exterior: Is it in reasonable condition? Can we move easily and safely around the decks? Position ourselves for anchoring or coming alongside? Simply get on and off without having the climbing abilities of a 10 year-old? Engines: A full mechanical survey and oils analyses of engine(s) and transmission(s) and generator, too, if one is aboard, is a basic requirement. Although this recitation made me realize that all the boats I've tried to purchase have been twin engined, I have considered several single-engined boats, but haven't been able to get to an agreed price on those I liked. Regardless of number, I am concerned that engine parts and service be readily available and reasonably priced. The boating forums are full of inquiries for sources of parts for engines that are no longer produced. Some were wonderful workhorses in their day, but... Unfortunately, that has caused me to reject a lot of otherwise attractive boats because they had these engines in them. As to the newer engines, www.boatdiesel.com and, of course, Trawlerworld, Passagemaker, etc. all have posts from people offering their experiences, some good, some awful. Fortunately, there are a few engines that have earned respect for reliability, parts and service, and I look for them, hoping that the hull that carries them will also prove worthy. The surveyors and mechanics I have consulted all seemed to refer to particular diesel engines as either slow-turning or fast-turning. The former tend to be older models that are big and heavy, the latter the lighter and smaller models being brought out for the present market. According to these experts, the slow turners can be +10,000 hour engines if well-maintained, but the fast turners require expensive overhauls a lot sooner. My own experience is limited to the observation that a lot of the boats that advertise low hour engines after a major overhaul have the fast-turners. Complexity: These days, most electronics are out of date before they're out of the box. They are also the bits that suffer the most in the infamous "marine environment". (I'm a sucker for toys, and prone to seduction.) The mechanical side also needs careful consideration: generators, ice-makers, water-makers, air conditioners, furnaces and so on are wonderful luxuries. However, they have to be maintained and eventually repaired or replaced. I try to be particularly strong-willed in assessing their value relative to my intended use of the boat, and to look beyond them. My personal mantra - which I have been known to ignore outrageously - is that I have to focus on those aspects of the vessel that are unchangeable and unforgiving. A new radio or GPS is cheap compared to a rusting fuel tank or rotten stringers. General Condition: Although I wish it could be otherwise, I've been in the market for a +20 year old boat, because I've been trying to max the size of the boat against whatever I pay. However, boat years probably equate more to dogs than humans, and because of that, the next step in our mental conciliation process has been a decision to consider going smaller and newer. Hey, tomorrow I'm off to look at a trawler with twin Lehmans. Maybe this will be the one! Cheers, Garrett

Garrrett, Good luck in your continuing search and don't get discouraged. You have not just made one successful transaction (the boathouse). From your recitation you have also successfully hired at least two very good surveyors - one for the boat and systems and one for engines, and havehad the wisdom to listen to them and accept thier advice. Dick "Keebird" Seattle ----- Original Message ----- From: "E16" <E16@telus.net> To: <trawler-world-list@samurai.com> Sent: Monday, April 17, 2000 8:07 PM Subject: TWL: Boatless in Victoria > A couple of you have taken me up on my offer to relate my 8 month saga of > frustrated attempts to buy a boat. I hope what follows also answers your > specific questions. > > (snip)