Hi David: Our boat has rod and chain manual steering. The autopilot motor
was attached to the steering through chain and sprocket. In other words
non-hydraulic. We carried a complete back up for the autopilot and kept the  system
non-complicated. Since we were only a crew of two (spouse and I) we  depended
on the AP to allow us to do the necessary chores while on or off duty.  Our
boat is also equipped with an emergency tiller but I really cannot imagine
steering from that position for any length of time. We did use this in our
training and 4hrs was just about our limit, and that is when we decided to have  a
complete back up to the AP motor. In your case this would be the hydraulics  and
the ram. Your call. Regards. Leonard Stern,  Indifference.

This discussion of backups for autopilot and hydraulic steering system seem
more than sensible.  I have spares for the autopilot, but nothing for the
hydraulic steering system.  I wonder if it would be possible to add a
second ram to tiller arm, completely independent of the main system, and
drive it with a separate autopilot. It would be good if the autopilot
driving this unit allowed you to manually actuate the rudders like manual
steering.  I have not seen an autopilot that allowed the operator to
control the rudders though.

Mike

Mike Cowan
MV Sue's Pool III
65 Hatteras LRC hull #2
Off-List email: mikec@wirelessconnections.net

First, you can have dual, opposing cylinders, but they have to the ability
to free float when the other one has taken over. I read this on the T&T list
and read it in a magazine but don't have a grasp of the subject.

COMNAV and Simrad (and probably others) offer "jog levers" that are either
self-centering or they have ones that stay in the position in which you
leave them. There are both fixed and mobile remotes with a cable. Some of
the remotes have additional autopilot functions. Pricing is all over the map
and with some brands, it is difficult to fathom what the various products
do. However, it is clear that you can do manual and rapid course
corrections - faster than the average wheel with 5.5 turns lock-to-lock. An
advantage in docking. A Navy tug I visited had a huge brass wheel (shined)
and the tug captain said that almost all "working" steering was done with
the jog levers flanking the wheel (unrelated to an autopilot, but same
result.) With my 1985 Wood-Freeman, I could steer using a knob, but it's in
a silly location.

Ron Rogers
Willard 40 AIRBORNE
Lying Annapolis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Cowan" trawler-world@wirelessconnections.net
| I have not seen an autopilot that allowed the operator to
| control the rudders though.

An email on T&T about the lower cost of purchasing generic drugs at COSTCO
reminded me that long-range cruisers need medical kits, perhaps a
relationship with a shoreside medical support team, and travel insurance
which pays for your air evacuation to the best hospital in a developed area
or all the way back to the States. The cost of insurance is not bad because
air ambulance evacs are relatively rare, but very expensive.

We used an outfit in Baltimore for the kit and air evac insurance from China
while on a month-long tour. To get you started, I should tell you that in
some countries, needles are reused and dressings laundered. So, we were
surprised to find cartridge syringes, hemostats and scissors, and suture
kits all sterile packed in our kit. The best boating kits are devoted to
various degrees of trauma, cuts, dehydration, and inadequate burn supplies.
What should be addressed is properly packed routine maintenance drugs, hard
copy Rx's, and emergency medicine drugs such as atropine injectable,
morphine/demerol, kidney stone medications, and antibiotics. Inflatable
splints, maybe even a shock suit, and an SOP for hypothermia.

There are courses to take. I once took an EMT course in Arizona in my spare
time. Manuals were great. Books like Medicine for Mountaineering and
Wilderness Medicine contain relevant materials for the passagemaker.

Georgs, I think that you should consider inviting Dr. Bob Austin to
contribute his world voyaging medical knowledge to this list. The NAR had a
doctor on the mothership, but satellite communications easily place an
emergency medicine specialist on the telephone.

Where and how far offshore can you get a medevac helo from a friendly
country to pick you up? What does it cost you? How does AMVER figure into
the equation? Are the routes we select too far out of the shipping lanes
when we are traveling singly? What criteria do the USCG, Canadian Coast
Guard, and other friendly countries use to determine whether or not they
will parachute in paramedics?

BTW, for a cruising couple, do you have a redundant autopilot to steer your
vessel while you attend to your SO, operate the radio, and check your
course?

Ron Rogers
Willard 40

Mike Cowan writes:  "I wonder if it would be possible to add a second ram to
tiller arm, completely independent of the main system, and drive it with a
separate autopilot."

It should be possible, but it seems to me that you'd have to have some
relatively easy way of disconnecting the ram not in use.  Ron Rogers
mentions "free floating" rams.  I'm not sure what those are, but perhaps
that would solve the problem.

Lee Robinson
"Katahdin"  Seaton 42 (custom
New Bern, NC

I've recalled a little more. First, I am not talking about the new "yoked"
rudder drives where pistons operating in reverse to each other operate a
yoke which drives the tiller arm. Assumption: it's for larger vessels. For
"normal" redundant pistons you have two conceptual implementations. In one,
two pistons are sited on opposite bulkheads or fixtures opposing one another
on the same or two tiller arms. They work together; when one pulls, the
other pushes. In the other implementation, only the standard piston works
while the "opposing" piston has no pressure (it's inactive) and just follows
the movements of the standard piston offering no drag or assistance. In this
case, the second piston would be tied into the redundant autopilot and would
be manually activated upon the failure of either manual steering or primary
autopilot and driven by the backup autopilot.

Ron Rogers
Willard 40 AIRBORNE
Lying Annapolis

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leland Robinson" lwrobinson942@earthlink.net

| Mike Cowan writes:  "I wonder if it would be possible to add a second ram
to
| tiller arm, completely independent of the main system, and drive it with a
| separate autopilot."
|
| It should be possible, but it seems to me that you'd have to have some
| relatively easy way of disconnecting the ram not in use.  Ron Rogers
| mentions "free floating" rams.  I'm not sure what those are, but perhaps
| that would solve the problem.

Katahdin has hydraulic steering, and I recently made an improved hand tiller
as a backup should the hydraulic system fail.  When I tried turning the
rudder with the hand tiller, it wouldn't turn.  I presumed that in order to
use the hand tiller I will need to disconnect the hydraulic ram.  Is that
true, or can I simply depressurize the hydraulic system?  In other words, if
I depressurize the system will I be able to turn the rudder with the hand
tiller even though the ram is still connected?  Would doing so cause any
harm to the ram or other components of the hydraulic system?

Thanks for your help.

Lee Robinson
"Katahdin"  Seaton 42 (custom)
New Bern, NC

RE:  Hand steering

Yes - you will either have to open the by pass valve around the hydraulic
cylinder - available on some systems - or you will have to disconnect it. I
doubt that "de-pressurizing" it will be of any benefit since hydraulic fluid
does compress very much.

Regards, John Harris