I'm looking for anyone's experience with a toaster oven on board.  Our
elderly propane stove doesn't get above warm, and I've hauled it out to
get it repaired at the local gas shop, but apparently parts are no longer
available, and we just don't need it enough to warrant buying a new one.
We do most of our cooking on the BBQ or the propane stovetop, which works
fine.  There are the odd times however, when an oven would be nice for
making appies, etc, so we're thinking of getting a little toaster oven to
use for those odd times.

By my calculations, a 1500W toaster oven would probably pull a little
over 140Ah, but I'm not sure if that's a steady draw for the whole time
it's on or if it cycles once it's up to temp.  I have a 2500W inverter,
so I'm pretty sure it will handle it without running the genset, but I'm
concerned that I'll reduce my time-on-battery by a lot.  My wife already
thinks I'm a battery-tyrant, because I'd prefer not to run the genset if
i can help it.

Anyone able to comment on the draw on one of these little toaster ovens,
or whether different brands handle the marine way of life better than
others?

Thanks
Rob Grant
41' Canoe Cove, "RaeLeah"
Delta, BC

I have a toaster oven on Gentle Wind, and love it!  Really
good for those quick snacks/meals.  The only thing I have
to remember is to turn off the coffee maker when I want to
toast something.  They're both on the same breaker, which
cannot handle the combined current!

I use the toaster oven more than I use the electric range
and electric oven.

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Grant
I'm looking for anyone's experience with a toaster oven on board.

By my calculations, a 1500W toaster oven would probably pull a little
over 140Ah, but I'm not sure if that's a steady draw for the whole time
it's on or if it cycles once it's up to temp.  I have a 2500W inverter,
so I'm pretty sure it will handle it without running the genset, but I'm
concerned that I'll reduce my time-on-battery by a lot.  My wife already
thinks I'm a battery-tyrant, because I'd prefer not to run the genset if
i can help it.

REPLY
All ovens equipped with a temp control will cycle. However it only does
that after reaching  the set temperature. Ovens with double wall
construction and highly polished internal reflectors seem to do better
in reaching internal heat faster compared to the low cost models  that
lack any sort of insulation or heat conservation design.

It also depends on whether you want the food browned or crisped instead
of just warmed up.

Arild

Your calculations are a bit off.  A 1500 Watt appliance will draw about
12 or 13 amperes off a 120 volt AC line.  This translates to 140 amperes
(not ampere-hours) off of a typical inverter, taking into consideration
about 10% conversion loss.  This is probably what you meant to say.

To calculate the number of ampere-hours removed from the battery you
need to multiply this by the actual number of hours that the device will
run.  They do cycle on and off, as you surmise, but the on-to-off ratio
depends on the temperature setting, and the mass and initial temperature
of the food inside, so you can't really calculate it.  Also, you need to
consider that when preheating the thing stays on 100%.

For the sake of an argument, let's assume that baking a few apples is
done at 350 degrees and that getting the oven up to that takes 5
minutes.  Then let's assume a 50% duty cycle for about 50 minutes, which
should be about right to bake a few apples.  That's 30 minutes of actual
running time, which results in 70 ampere hours drawn from the batteries.

You might want to take a look at convection cookers as an alternative;
the ones I have in mind are circular, usually glass, with a motor/heater
on top.  I'm not sure, but I think they draw less (they can't draw much
more or you'd pop the typical 15 ampere breaker).  They have a fan that
moves the air around and reduces cooking time.  That should translate to
less draw on the batteries.  Or, maybe a slow cooker?  They draw much
less and run for longer, but are usually insulated; so they should be
more efficient.

That's all I can think of for the moment.

Cheers,
Maurice
AKAMA

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Grant [mailto:Rob.Grant@telus.net]
Sent: Monday, 30 January 2006 08:58
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Toaster Oven

I'm looking for anyone's experience with a toaster oven on board.  Our
elderly propane stove doesn't get above warm, and I've hauled it out to
get it repaired at the local gas shop, but apparently parts are no
longer
available, and we just don't need it enough to warrant buying a new one.

We do most of our cooking on the BBQ or the propane stovetop, which
works
fine.  There are the odd times however, when an oven would be nice for
making appies, etc, so we're thinking of getting a little toaster oven
to
use for those odd times.

By my calculations, a 1500W toaster oven would probably pull a little
over 140Ah, but I'm not sure if that's a steady draw for the whole time
it's on or if it cycles once it's up to temp.  I have a 2500W inverter,
so I'm pretty sure it will handle it without running the genset, but I'm
concerned that I'll reduce my time-on-battery by a lot.  My wife already
thinks I'm a battery-tyrant, because I'd prefer not to run the genset if
i can help it.

Anyone able to comment on the draw on one of these little toaster ovens,
or whether different brands handle the marine way of life better than
others?

Thanks
Rob Grant
41' Canoe Cove, "RaeLeah"
Delta, BC

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Rob, we have a Black and Decker Toast-R-Oven which is rated at 1550 watts.
Like most, it adjusts itself to the set temperature by completely turning
off the heating element when it has exceeded the set temperature and then it
comes back on when it drops below the set temperature.  Unless the boat is
very cold, the unit seems to cycle with equal "off" and "on" times.  So that
would average something like 775 watts over time, once it reaches the set
temperature.  Assuming that nothing else with a significant AC draw is
operating at the same time, you will be fine with your 2500 watt inverter,
which is what I have.  But that is a tricky issue.

We run a Raritan Icer-ette ice-maker most of the time and it draws some
power.  Our Norcold refer run directly off the 12volt housebank when we're
anchored, rather than from AC current.  We may have the TV or stereo on.  AC
lights run off the inverter when away from shorepower too.  We have a pair
of those West Marine electric dehumidifiers that use some AC current, from
the inverter when we're anchored out, unless I think to turn them off.  And
I'm sure if I thought about it a little more I could think of a few more
appliances that run at least part of the time when we're on the inverter
like the depthsounder and/or VHF.  I cite these examples of other
current-consuming devices to get you to evaluate how much other gear on your
boat might draw from the inverter.

So I'd recommend that you guesstimate how many additional watts you're
likely to expend, in addition to the toaster oven, to get a valid estimate
of your actual current draw.  Of course you can simply turn off AC devices
around the boat to conserve the housebank to maximize your cooking time.

Bob Peterson
"Lopaka Nane"
47' Lien Hwa CPMY
San Francisco

-----Original Message-----
From: trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawlers-and-trawlering-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Grant
Sent: Sunday, January 29, 2006 11:58 AM
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Subject: T&T: Toaster Oven

I'm looking for anyone's experience with a toaster oven on board.

I bought a large (12" pizza bump) Black and Decker for $49 or $69 at
Walmart. After a year, my Chinese toaster oven's analog electrics died. I
can smell burning wiring and am seeking to get inside; but you have never
seen such a Hodge-Podge of screws and bolts.

It was a waste of electricity to toast two pieces of bread, but good pizza
and other large dishes - until it died - slowly, oven first. As long as you
are buying something like it for its oven properties, I'd seek one from a
store which has very long return policies like Sam's. Oh, my boat came with
a dedicated microwave and toaster outlet - this is a good thing.

Ron Rogers

----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob Grant" Rob.Grant@telus.net
|
| Anyone able to comment on the draw on one of these little toaster ovens,
| or whether different brands handle the marine way of life better than
| others?

Rob wrote:

I'm looking for anyone's experience with a toaster oven on board.  .....  My
wife already thinks I'm a battery-tyrant, because I'd prefer not to run the
genset if i can help it.

Anyone able to comment on the draw on one of these little toaster ovens, or
whether different brands handle the marine way of life better than others?

Reply:

We have a microwave/convection oven made by Sharp that we really like.  It
will bake or broil or microwave or a combination.  We hardly make a meal
without using it.  It is four or five years old so model numbers and prices
would be meaningless.

I agree with your wife - turn on the generator and forget about counting
battery amps.  There is a lot to be said about creature comforts especially
when it comes to keeping your wife happy. Boats would be different if they
were designed by women!

Happy Dining.

Eric Thoman
Abyssinia
www.kayaktransport.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Grant

By my calculations, a 1500W toaster oven would probably pull a little
over 140Ah, but I'm not sure if that's a steady draw for the whole time
it's on or if it cycles once it's up to temp.  I have a 2500W inverter,
so I'm pretty sure it will handle it without running the genset, but I'm
concerned that I'll reduce my time-on-battery by a lot.

REPLY
Robs question came in just as I was going out to shop for a toaster oven
/ grill for the wife. Decided to do a bit more product research. Most of
the big name brands seem to rate their devices at 1200 watts. Saw only
one at 1400 watts. A few were rated at 1100 watts. Concerning load
current on the DC battery side. This is going to vary depending on state
of charge.
With the battery fully charged the 1500 watts becomes 1500 divided by
12.6 = 119.05 amps in theory. However there is nearly 10% loss in
conversion so you have to add that. Therefore the
119.05 + 11.9 = 130.95 amps

But when the battery becomes partially depleted, say down to 11.0V;
that same 1500 watts now results in a bigger 12V draw. 136.36A + 13.6A =
149.96Amps

The worst part is;  when you place such a large load on a battery it
tends to drag down the terminal voltage more than if the same amp hours
at a lower current draw was used.  Then when the load is cut off, the
voltage rebounds. Peukert's effect.
Robs figure of 140Amps is a pretty fair average.

In checking the toaster oven manuals I find most recipes call for a
maximum of 15 minutes heating, after the oven has been preheated to the
required approximately 350F degrees
In other words the preheat stage pretty well wipes out the duty cycle
gain after the heat has been reached. So a typical snack heating cycle
will pull about 35 amp hours from the house
bank. That is not too exorbitant a percentage from the house bank
capacity as long as you have at least 600 amp hours total bank capacity.

The real question becomes how effective is the heat transfer into the
food being cooked.
Some toaster ovens have a black calrod heating element while others
[Proctor Silex] has a quarts infra red heater element. My information is
that these are faster and more effective in heating foods. Regrettably;
I haven't bought one of each type to test this theory.
VBG - you provide the oven I will do the testing. Wife loves to cook.

One other thing to note. Some of the ovens have digital timers and uses
a zero crossing clock circuit. These will not run accurate time on a
typical Freedom or Combi MSW inverter.
Best bet is to get one with a mechanical clock timer or else do without
the clock function.

Now the wife wants to write a cook book based on  low energy recipes
suitable for preparation  while running the cooking appliance on an
inverter. She expects me to calculated the energy content in amp hours
<VBG>

Cheers
Arild

-----Original Message-----
From: Eric Thoman
I agree with your wife - turn on the generator and forget about counting
battery amps. There is a lot to be said about creature comforts
especially when it comes to keeping your wife happy. Boats would be
different if they were designed by women!

REPLY
However a great deal depends on timing. <VBG> Starting the genset at
regular mealtimes is one thing; starting the genset at 10:00 or 11:00 PM
is quite another. Keeping the wife happy might earn you the displeasure
of the rest of the anchorage.
A compromise is in order.

Apropo of keeping the wife happy;....

I found a number of 12V DC powered wine bottle chillers while Googling
for refrigerators.

At least hereabouts the super markets have a number of frozen appys
available that only requires a quick heating session prior to serving.
Dim Sum, Vienna sausage in pastry, and those lovely french pates in a
little pastry cup or mini quiches. Another local company - Deep Cove;
sells flaked Tuna and Salmon marinaded in a variety of sauces ranging
from garlic, ginger, onion, spicy Tai chili, to Teriyaki and lemon sauce
plus the traditional virgin olive oil. These come in small cans 85g
suitable for a one person serving. Take your pick!

Served with a variety pack of fine crackers plus some smoked oysters or
mussels and a selection of cheeses, makes a very nice snack without
having to flash up the stove or drain the battery. The DC powered wine
chiller will keep the bottle cold on even the hottest nights.

Cheers

Arild

Thanks for the detailed analysis Arild, and thanks to the other dozen or
so people that responded on and off-list with their experiences and
suggestions.  Looks like these little things are pretty popular, which is
a revelation for me having never been exposed to one (yes, I live a very
sheltered life...).  I did select 1500W as the worst case scenario -
there were a couple like the Cuisinart that rated that high, but many
rated lower.

To summarize - looks like these are fairly common aboard, but for quick
snacks and other small pizza-size meals that would take about 15min or
less.  The problems with the electronic timer on the inverter is good to
know and avoid.

I was thinking that we'd just go for one and try it, but the boss is
saying now that if she had a toaster oven - then she'd need to run the
freezer to keep all the stuff she wanted to cook in the toaster oven
frozen, so we shouldn't get one ....sigh....  I think I'll just pick one
up and see what happens.

Rob

REPLY
Robs question came in just as I was going out to shop for a toaster oven
/ grill for the wife. Decided to do a bit more product research.