local WWVB ?
Hi Folks,
I always like your discussions! Now I'd like to ask a question.
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
If not, I'll look into coding something for the Pi or maybe a M5Stack
platform.
Cheers,
Larry
Hi
Putting out a signal on a frequency like that is probably not a good
idea. There is risk of it propagating … Better to just let the clocks
lock to the real thing.
Bob
On Dec 10, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Lawrence Brandt lawrence.brandt@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Folks,
I always like your discussions! Now I'd like to ask a question.
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
If not, I'll look into coding something for the Pi or maybe a M5Stack
platform.
Cheers,
Larry
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To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 15:54:55 -0500
"Lawrence Brandt" lawrence.brandt@gmail.com wrote:
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
Today, with all the non-licensed wireless stuff we have as
gadgets, it doesn't seem to be as obvious as it once was, but:
Transmitting on a frequency you don't have the explicit license
for is forbidden. And there are some quite hefty fines for that.
Especially transmitting on a widely used frequency of an
infrastructure service like WWVB might not be looked kindly upon.
If you want to lock WWVB clocks that are placed somewhere, where
the reception is not good enough. Then you should inject the signal
directly into the clock. This way you avoid transmitting.
Alternatively, replace the electronics with some 802.15.4 system
(e.g., 6LowPan) and distribute time in this network. There are
plenty of developer boards available for this kind of stuff,
just check adafruit and sparkfun.
Attila Kinali
--
The driving force behind research is the question: "Why?"
There are things we don't understand and things we always
wonder about. And that's why we do research.
-- Kobayashi Makoto
When there was talk a few years ago about this service going away I found this alternative: https://www.anishathalye.com/2016/12/26/micro-wwvb/
--
Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox.
Dec 10, 2021, 15:54 by lawrence.brandt@gmail.com:
Hi Folks,
I always like your discussions! Now I'd like to ask a question.
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
If not, I'll look into coding something for the Pi or maybe a M5Stack
platform.
Cheers,
Larry
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To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
Hi
Unfortunately not all of us are living in part of the world with
reliable reception of xxxx timcode data.
I have been using the "Chronvertor"
https://unusualelectronics.co.uk/retired-products/chronvertor/ feed by
a cheap GPS board for years to emulate MSF Rugby time signal for a
special receiver. This little board can generate a number of different
timecode signals including WWVB, see the documentation on the web site.
The original Chronvertor have now been replaced by a new board which at
the moment is marked 'out of stock' at the moment, but send a request on
the web site.
Although not part of the question, be very careful of the signal level
you are going to produce on these frequencies. They should not be
detectable outside your premises.
Per
On 11.12.2021 14:13, Bob kb8tq wrote:
Hi
Putting out a signal on a frequency like that is probably not a good
idea. There is risk of it propagating … Better to just let the clocks
lock to the real thing.
Bob
On Dec 10, 2021, at 3:54 PM, Lawrence Brandt lawrence.brandt@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Folks,
I always like your discussions! Now I'd like to ask a question.
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
If not, I'll look into coding something for the Pi or maybe a M5Stack
platform.
Cheers,
Larry
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To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
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E-posten er sjekket for virus av AVG.
http://www.avg.com
There are software "emulators" for WWVB, JJY, MSF, DCF77 available for both iPhones and Android phones that transmit very low power time signals through the mobile phone speakers as a harmonic.
See
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=jp.houryo.wwvbemulator&hl=en_US
https://apps.apple.com/us/app/clock-wave/id1073576068
I've used Clock Wave myself to set a WWVB wall clock in a poor-reception part of my house.
These emulators are also popular for people who buy/own so-called "atomic" (or "radio controlled") quartz watches (e.g., Casio Multiband/WaveCeptor, Citizen, some models of Seiko) that can synchronize to one or more of these time signals, but who live out of reception range of the transmitters (e.g., South America, Africa, Australia, India).
I discovered this class of software for mobile phones while researching acquistion or building of a WWVB passive repeater to get that signal into those parts of my house that are too well shielded by the building materials. I never did find one to buy, and building one seemed less interesting once I discovered the software emulators.
To further publicize their existence for people who want accurate time on their wrist watches but won't/can't spring for a GPS watch (those tend to start at $1k and go up), I wrote some articles for Quora, e.g.,
These types of watches are popular in Japan, but, alas, there are many attractive models which are not "multiband" (to use Casio's marketing phrase for the capability) - they only receive the JJY stations/frequencies in Japan - thus, a watch enthusiast who wants to fully use one of those Japan Domestic Models (JDM) outside Japan can now use a software emulator to set their watches.
Kinda cool that a mobile phone speaker can harmonically transmit 60 KHz.
Erik
Although not advisable a search of the Internet will turn up several.
There is a well know Raspberry PI version. The range of the transmitters
is only a couple of feet so if placed next to your clock it will work.
Anything that would cover your entire house would certainly not be
advised.
There is also a smart phone app that does the same thing. It uses the
phone speaker somehow to generate a harmonic (probably 3rd of 20 kHz).
The watch or clock has to be placed next to the phone speaker for it to
work.
Ray, AB7HE
On 2021-12-11 06:43, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 15:54:55 -0500
"Lawrence Brandt" lawrence.brandt@gmail.com wrote:
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can
picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced
time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode
data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
Today, with all the non-licensed wireless stuff we have as
gadgets, it doesn't seem to be as obvious as it once was, but:
Transmitting on a frequency you don't have the explicit license
for is forbidden. And there are some quite hefty fines for that.
Especially transmitting on a widely used frequency of an
infrastructure service like WWVB might not be looked kindly upon.
If you want to lock WWVB clocks that are placed somewhere, where
the reception is not good enough. Then you should inject the signal
directly into the clock. This way you avoid transmitting.
Alternatively, replace the electronics with some 802.15.4 system
(e.g., 6LowPan) and distribute time in this network. There are
plenty of developer boards available for this kind of stuff,
just check adafruit and sparkfun.
Attila Kinali
To "transmit" on 60kHz and radiate ANY reasonable power needs a very large
antenna. I used to transmit on 73kHz when we briefly had an amateiur band
there, have 7 metre high antenna with a substantial capacity hat, was
putting 200 Watts into it but was getting an estimated radiated power of
just a few milliwatts. It was detected at 400km distance, but only in an
ultra narrow bandwidth DSP based receiver, far too narrow for 1s timing
window
The small transmitters you are talking about for relays operate using a
magnetic loop that couples only (well, very nearly only) the magnetic H
field from the source. The H field falls off not as the square of
distance, as the radiated field normally associated with a radio
transmission does, but as the sixth power of distance. SO once you get
beyond a few metres of a small loop antenna with a few milliwatts being
put into it, any signal will have dropped below the noise and cannot be
considered to be "transmitted"
Andy
www.g4jnt.com
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 at 16:11, rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote:
Although not advisable a search of the Internet will turn up several.
There is a well know Raspberry PI version. The range of the transmitters
is only a couple of feet so if placed next to your clock it will work.
Anything that would cover your entire house would certainly not be
advised.
There is also a smart phone app that does the same thing. It uses the
phone speaker somehow to generate a harmonic (probably 3rd of 20 kHz).
The watch or clock has to be placed next to the phone speaker for it to
work.
Ray, AB7HE
On 2021-12-11 06:43, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 15:54:55 -0500
"Lawrence Brandt" lawrence.brandt@gmail.com wrote:
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can
picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced
time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode
data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
Today, with all the non-licensed wireless stuff we have as
gadgets, it doesn't seem to be as obvious as it once was, but:
Transmitting on a frequency you don't have the explicit license
for is forbidden. And there are some quite hefty fines for that.
Especially transmitting on a widely used frequency of an
infrastructure service like WWVB might not be looked kindly upon.
If you want to lock WWVB clocks that are placed somewhere, where
the reception is not good enough. Then you should inject the signal
directly into the clock. This way you avoid transmitting.
Alternatively, replace the electronics with some 802.15.4 system
(e.g., 6LowPan) and distribute time in this network. There are
plenty of developer boards available for this kind of stuff,
just check adafruit and sparkfun.
Attila Kinali
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send
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To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
That is a very impressive project.
-=Bryan=-
From: Robb via time-nuts time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Sent: December 11, 2021 5:48 AM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@lists.febo.com
Cc: Robb robb@nn8g.us
Subject: [time-nuts] Re: local WWVB ?
When there was talk a few years ago about this service going away I found this alternative: https://www.anishathalye.com/2016/12/26/micro-wwvb/
--
Sent with Tutanota, the secure & ad-free mailbox.
Dec 10, 2021, 15:54 by lawrence.brandt@gmail.com:
Hi Folks,
I always like your discussions! Now I'd like to ask a question.
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
If not, I'll look into coding something for the Pi or maybe a M5Stack
platform.
Cheers,
Larry
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@lists.febo.com -- To unsubscribe send an email to time-nuts-leave@lists.febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
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To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
Hi
The problem with any local signal is that even if it is “propagated” via coupling
to the AC power lines or something equally obscure, once it gets off your
property, you (potentially) are in trouble ….
Bob
On Dec 11, 2021, at 11:20 AM, Andy Talbot andy.g4jnt@gmail.com wrote:
To "transmit" on 60kHz and radiate ANY reasonable power needs a very large
antenna. I used to transmit on 73kHz when we briefly had an amateiur band
there, have 7 metre high antenna with a substantial capacity hat, was
putting 200 Watts into it but was getting an estimated radiated power of
just a few milliwatts. It was detected at 400km distance, but only in an
ultra narrow bandwidth DSP based receiver, far too narrow for 1s timing
window
The small transmitters you are talking about for relays operate using a
magnetic loop that couples only (well, very nearly only) the magnetic H
field from the source. The H field falls off not as the square of
distance, as the radiated field normally associated with a radio
transmission does, but as the sixth power of distance. SO once you get
beyond a few metres of a small loop antenna with a few milliwatts being
put into it, any signal will have dropped below the noise and cannot be
considered to be "transmitted"
Andy
www.g4jnt.com
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 at 16:11, rcbuck@atcelectronics.com wrote:
Although not advisable a search of the Internet will turn up several.
There is a well know Raspberry PI version. The range of the transmitters
is only a couple of feet so if placed next to your clock it will work.
Anything that would cover your entire house would certainly not be
advised.
There is also a smart phone app that does the same thing. It uses the
phone speaker somehow to generate a harmonic (probably 3rd of 20 kHz).
The watch or clock has to be placed next to the phone speaker for it to
work.
Ray, AB7HE
On 2021-12-11 06:43, Attila Kinali wrote:
On Fri, 10 Dec 2021 15:54:55 -0500
"Lawrence Brandt" lawrence.brandt@gmail.com wrote:
Has anyone designed and/or sold a "WWVB repeater" device? I can
picture a
Raspberry Pi which had software to get NTP data or GPS-referenced
time, and
a small 60 kHz transmitter, which would send the proper WWVB timecode
data
to the several "atomic clocks" I have around the house.
Today, with all the non-licensed wireless stuff we have as
gadgets, it doesn't seem to be as obvious as it once was, but:
Transmitting on a frequency you don't have the explicit license
for is forbidden. And there are some quite hefty fines for that.
Especially transmitting on a widely used frequency of an
infrastructure service like WWVB might not be looked kindly upon.
If you want to lock WWVB clocks that are placed somewhere, where
the reception is not good enough. Then you should inject the signal
directly into the clock. This way you avoid transmitting.
Alternatively, replace the electronics with some 802.15.4 system
(e.g., 6LowPan) and distribute time in this network. There are
plenty of developer boards available for this kind of stuff,
just check adafruit and sparkfun.
Attila Kinali
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To unsubscribe, go to and follow the instructions there.
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