Empathy List Archives

KU

Ken Underwood

Mon, Sep 21, 2020 4:52 PM

Happy Monday

I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed?

At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law...but it is shooting for a good cause.

Fly low, they may be shooting

Shoot low they may be flying

Thanks and have a great week.

Ken Ray Underwood
Attorney at Law
The Beacon Building
406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640
Tulsa, OK 74103
Phone: 918-582-7447
Fax: 918-582-0166
Ken@ulawok.com mailto:Ken@ulawok.com
www.ulawok.com http://www.ulawok.com/
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

Happy Monday I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed? At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law...but it is shooting for a good cause. Fly low, they may be shooting Shoot low they may be flying Thanks and have a great week. Ken Ray Underwood Attorney at Law The Beacon Building 406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640 Tulsa, OK 74103 Phone: 918-582-7447 Fax: 918-582-0166 Ken@ulawok.com<mailto:Ken@ulawok.com> www.ulawok.com<http://www.ulawok.com/> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com<mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com>, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

MR

Mark Ramsey

Mon, Sep 21, 2020 7:18 PM

You can amend the Ordinance. Technically, I don't think an Ordinance can be "waived" without following the same formalities as adopting an amendment. As a practical matter, you can adopt a resolution directing the Police Department to ignore the Ordinance, but I think that doesn't look very good. Unless you have a unanimous council, it could be a problem and if a citizen complains, that could be a problem as well. If it were me, I would recommend amending the Ordinance to allow it under carefully described circumstances so you don't make the original Ordinance meaningless.

Good Luck!

Mark H. Ramsey
For the Firm
Taylor, Foster, Mallett,
Downs, Ramsey & Russell, P.C.
P.O. Box 309
Claremore, OK 74018
918-343-4100
918-343-4900 fax
mramsey@soonerlaw.com mailto:apixley@soonerlaw.com
The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, or responsible for delivering some or all of this transmission to an intended recipient, you have received this transmission in error and are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from reading, copying, printing, distributing or disclosing any of the information contained in it. In that event, please contact us immediately by telephone (918) 343-4100 or by electronic mail at postmaster@soonerlaw.com mailto:postmaster@soonerlaw.com and delete the original and all copies of this transmission (including any attachments) without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Ken Underwood
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:53 AM
To: oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest

Notice: This email is from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected e-mail.

Happy Monday

I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed?

At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law...but it is shooting for a good cause.

Fly low, they may be shooting

Shoot low they may be flying

Thanks and have a great week.

Ken Ray Underwood
Attorney at Law
The Beacon Building
406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640
Tulsa, OK 74103
Phone: 918-582-7447
Fax: 918-582-0166
Ken@ulawok.com mailto:Ken@ulawok.com
www.ulawok.com https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.ulawok.com%252f%26c%3DE%2C1%2CJ8H2vkLrcbLSj5PrjykMGesr2e2a-__WXz349ZYzSrnqi9SVd9h9-HMTJC7Kfujd_q9UuiMgH8laMq_-zQEv-xwQPpy3AgGB5dcm-aKy68EtPPCg8eMbqXvwHiA%2C%26typo%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cmramsey%40soonerlaw.com%7C8e9b35c43c4a4cf2be1108d85e5e18f6%7Ccd3766af25f04fe2829ce96eb13be37c%7C0%7C0%7C637363105549420890&sdata=gYR3lW9OJT06nToESUocDdBdJqBFzcm0jXJBnvqLIFU%3D&reserved=0
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

You can amend the Ordinance. Technically, I don't think an Ordinance can be "waived" without following the same formalities as adopting an amendment. As a practical matter, you can adopt a resolution directing the Police Department to ignore the Ordinance, but I think that doesn't look very good. Unless you have a unanimous council, it could be a problem and if a citizen complains, that could be a problem as well. If it were me, I would recommend amending the Ordinance to allow it under carefully described circumstances so you don't make the original Ordinance meaningless. Good Luck! Mark H. Ramsey For the Firm Taylor, Foster, Mallett, Downs, Ramsey & Russell, P.C. P.O. Box 309 Claremore, OK 74018 918-343-4100 918-343-4900 fax mramsey@soonerlaw.com<mailto:apixley@soonerlaw.com> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, or responsible for delivering some or all of this transmission to an intended recipient, you have received this transmission in error and are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from reading, copying, printing, distributing or disclosing any of the information contained in it. In that event, please contact us immediately by telephone (918) 343-4100 or by electronic mail at postmaster@soonerlaw.com<mailto:postmaster@soonerlaw.com> and delete the original and all copies of this transmission (including any attachments) without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you. From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Ken Underwood Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:53 AM To: oama@lists.imla.org Subject: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest Notice: This email is from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected e-mail. ________________________________ Happy Monday I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed? At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law...but it is shooting for a good cause. Fly low, they may be shooting Shoot low they may be flying Thanks and have a great week. Ken Ray Underwood Attorney at Law The Beacon Building 406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640 Tulsa, OK 74103 Phone: 918-582-7447 Fax: 918-582-0166 Ken@ulawok.com<mailto:Ken@ulawok.com> www.ulawok.com<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.ulawok.com%252f%26c%3DE%2C1%2CJ8H2vkLrcbLSj5PrjykMGesr2e2a-__WXz349ZYzSrnqi9SVd9h9-HMTJC7Kfujd_q9UuiMgH8laMq_-zQEv-xwQPpy3AgGB5dcm-aKy68EtPPCg8eMbqXvwHiA%2C%26typo%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cmramsey%40soonerlaw.com%7C8e9b35c43c4a4cf2be1108d85e5e18f6%7Ccd3766af25f04fe2829ce96eb13be37c%7C0%7C0%7C637363105549420890&sdata=gYR3lW9OJT06nToESUocDdBdJqBFzcm0jXJBnvqLIFU%3D&reserved=0> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com<mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com>, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

JB

Jeff Bryant

Mon, Sep 21, 2020 8:44 PM

I agree with Mark. The Council, as the law making body, has the ability to take an action contrary to an existing Ordinance under the principle that the Council's most recent legislative act supersedes the prior legislative act. So, legally it can be done by Resolution or Ordinance amendments or a more recent ordinance that is contrary to an older ordinance.

However, some would argue that, politically, this erodes public respect and confidence in existing ordinances or in a government that is willing it impose rules on others that it is clearly not willing to follow itself. A more comprehensive approach that tailors exceptions in well defined circumstances, or repeal of the existing ordinance that is creating the tension, might be approaches that might be better received by citizens. Hope this helps.

Jeff Bryant

OMAG's COVID-19 Info Page: https://www.omag.org/covid19-faq

Jeff H Bryant
Director of Legal Services
Associate General Counsel
jbryant@omag.org mailto:jbryant@omag.org

[OMAG Small Logo Smooth]
3650 S. Boulevard
Edmond, Oklahoma 73013
Phone: 405-657-1419
Fax: 405-657-1401
www.omag.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omag.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cksesock%40omag.org%7C7b0af7708d2145459d0008d5d005912d%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C636643644718063768&sdata=O5U4CEM0kJLxSbEQIcdB%2BtRnRqcj9gWhJquY26D8F1o%3D&reserved=0

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Mark Ramsey
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:18 PM
To: Ken Underwood ken@ulawok.com; oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest

You can amend the Ordinance. Technically, I don't think an Ordinance can be "waived" without following the same formalities as adopting an amendment. As a practical matter, you can adopt a resolution directing the Police Department to ignore the Ordinance, but I think that doesn't look very good. Unless you have a unanimous council, it could be a problem and if a citizen complains, that could be a problem as well. If it were me, I would recommend amending the Ordinance to allow it under carefully described circumstances so you don't make the original Ordinance meaningless.

Good Luck!

Mark H. Ramsey
For the Firm
Taylor, Foster, Mallett,
Downs, Ramsey & Russell, P.C.
P.O. Box 309
Claremore, OK 74018
918-343-4100
918-343-4900 fax
mramsey@soonerlaw.com mailto:apixley@soonerlaw.com
The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, or responsible for delivering some or all of this transmission to an intended recipient, you have received this transmission in error and are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from reading, copying, printing, distributing or disclosing any of the information contained in it. In that event, please contact us immediately by telephone (918) 343-4100 or by electronic mail at postmaster@soonerlaw.com mailto:postmaster@soonerlaw.com and delete the original and all copies of this transmission (including any attachments) without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.

From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Ken Underwood
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:53 AM
To: oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest

Notice: This email is from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected e-mail.

Happy Monday

I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed?

At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law...but it is shooting for a good cause.

Fly low, they may be shooting

Shoot low they may be flying

Thanks and have a great week.

Ken Ray Underwood
Attorney at Law
The Beacon Building
406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640
Tulsa, OK 74103
Phone: 918-582-7447
Fax: 918-582-0166
Ken@ulawok.com mailto:Ken@ulawok.com
www.ulawok.com https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.ulawok.com%252f%26c%3DE%2C1%2CJ8H2vkLrcbLSj5PrjykMGesr2e2a-__WXz349ZYzSrnqi9SVd9h9-HMTJC7Kfujd_q9UuiMgH8laMq_-zQEv-xwQPpy3AgGB5dcm-aKy68EtPPCg8eMbqXvwHiA%2C%26typo%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cjbryant%40omag.org%7Cec395d89a9954be594ce08d85e633944%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C637363127566676103&sdata=XwC7iDz6lt22zh9amIZ%2BM5FUbW0V8x7DUGnNlRnmIaA%3D&reserved=0
CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

I agree with Mark. The Council, as the law making body, has the ability to take an action contrary to an existing Ordinance under the principle that the Council's most recent legislative act supersedes the prior legislative act. So, legally it can be done by Resolution or Ordinance amendments or a more recent ordinance that is contrary to an older ordinance. However, some would argue that, politically, this erodes public respect and confidence in existing ordinances or in a government that is willing it impose rules on others that it is clearly not willing to follow itself. A more comprehensive approach that tailors exceptions in well defined circumstances, or repeal of the existing ordinance that is creating the tension, might be approaches that might be better received by citizens. Hope this helps. Jeff Bryant OMAG's COVID-19 Info Page: https://www.omag.org/covid19-faq Jeff H Bryant Director of Legal Services Associate General Counsel jbryant@omag.org<mailto:jbryant@omag.org> [OMAG Small Logo Smooth] 3650 S. Boulevard Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 Phone: 405-657-1419 Fax: 405-657-1401 www.omag.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omag.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cksesock%40omag.org%7C7b0af7708d2145459d0008d5d005912d%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C636643644718063768&sdata=O5U4CEM0kJLxSbEQIcdB%2BtRnRqcj9gWhJquY26D8F1o%3D&reserved=0> From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Mark Ramsey Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:18 PM To: Ken Underwood <ken@ulawok.com>; oama@lists.imla.org Subject: Re: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest You can amend the Ordinance. Technically, I don't think an Ordinance can be "waived" without following the same formalities as adopting an amendment. As a practical matter, you can adopt a resolution directing the Police Department to ignore the Ordinance, but I think that doesn't look very good. Unless you have a unanimous council, it could be a problem and if a citizen complains, that could be a problem as well. If it were me, I would recommend amending the Ordinance to allow it under carefully described circumstances so you don't make the original Ordinance meaningless. Good Luck! Mark H. Ramsey For the Firm Taylor, Foster, Mallett, Downs, Ramsey & Russell, P.C. P.O. Box 309 Claremore, OK 74018 918-343-4100 918-343-4900 fax mramsey@soonerlaw.com<mailto:apixley@soonerlaw.com> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, or responsible for delivering some or all of this transmission to an intended recipient, you have received this transmission in error and are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from reading, copying, printing, distributing or disclosing any of the information contained in it. In that event, please contact us immediately by telephone (918) 343-4100 or by electronic mail at postmaster@soonerlaw.com<mailto:postmaster@soonerlaw.com> and delete the original and all copies of this transmission (including any attachments) without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you. From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org>> On Behalf Of Ken Underwood Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:53 AM To: oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest Notice: This email is from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected e-mail. ________________________________ Happy Monday I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed? At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law...but it is shooting for a good cause. Fly low, they may be shooting Shoot low they may be flying Thanks and have a great week. Ken Ray Underwood Attorney at Law The Beacon Building 406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640 Tulsa, OK 74103 Phone: 918-582-7447 Fax: 918-582-0166 Ken@ulawok.com<mailto:Ken@ulawok.com> www.ulawok.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.ulawok.com%252f%26c%3DE%2C1%2CJ8H2vkLrcbLSj5PrjykMGesr2e2a-__WXz349ZYzSrnqi9SVd9h9-HMTJC7Kfujd_q9UuiMgH8laMq_-zQEv-xwQPpy3AgGB5dcm-aKy68EtPPCg8eMbqXvwHiA%2C%26typo%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cjbryant%40omag.org%7Cec395d89a9954be594ce08d85e633944%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C637363127566676103&sdata=XwC7iDz6lt22zh9amIZ%2BM5FUbW0V8x7DUGnNlRnmIaA%3D&reserved=0> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com<mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com>, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

JM

Jon Miller

Mon, Sep 21, 2020 9:15 PM

I would add that if the prohibition is in an ordinance then the authorization to do something prohibited by the ordinance should also be done by ordinance. A resolution, technically, can’t override that which is required by an ordinance.

Jon Miller
City of Mustang

Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org on behalf of Jeff Bryant via Oama oama@lists.imla.org
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:44:48 PM
To: Mark Ramsey MRamsey@soonerlaw.com; Ken Underwood ken@ulawok.com; oama@lists.imla.org oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest

I agree with Mark. The Council, as the law making body, has the ability to take an action contrary to an existing Ordinance under the principle that the Council’s most recent legislative act supersedes the prior legislative act. So, legally it can be done by Resolution or Ordinance amendments or a more recent ordinance that is contrary to an older ordinance.

However, some would argue that, politically, this erodes public respect and confidence in existing ordinances or in a government that is willing it impose rules on others that it is clearly not willing to follow itself. A more comprehensive approach that tailors exceptions in well defined circumstances, or repeal of the existing ordinance that is creating the tension, might be approaches that might be better received by citizens. Hope this helps.

Jeff Bryant

OMAG’s COVID-19 Info Page: https://www.omag.org/covid19-faq

Jeff H Bryant
Director of Legal Services
Associate General Counsel

jbryant@omag.org mailto:jbryant@omag.org

[OMAG Small Logo Smooth]
3650 S. Boulevard
Edmond, Oklahoma 73013
Phone: 405-657-1419
Fax: 405-657-1401
www.omag.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omag.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cksesock%40omag.org%7C7b0af7708d2145459d0008d5d005912d%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C636643644718063768&sdata=O5U4CEM0kJLxSbEQIcdB%2BtRnRqcj9gWhJquY26D8F1o%3D&reserved=0

From: Oama oama-bounces@lists.imla.org On Behalf Of Mark Ramsey
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:18 PM
To: Ken Underwood ken@ulawok.com; oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: Re: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest

You can amend the Ordinance. Technically, I don’t think an Ordinance can be “waived” without following the same formalities as adopting an amendment. As a practical matter, you can adopt a resolution directing the Police Department to ignore the Ordinance, but I think that doesn’t look very good. Unless you have a unanimous council, it could be a problem and if a citizen complains, that could be a problem as well. If it were me, I would recommend amending the Ordinance to allow it under carefully described circumstances so you don’t make the original Ordinance meaningless.

Good Luck!

Mark H. Ramsey

For the Firm

Taylor, Foster, Mallett,

Downs, Ramsey & Russell, P.C.

P.O. Box 309

Claremore, OK 74018

918-343-4100

918-343-4900 fax

mramsey@soonerlaw.com mailto:apixley@soonerlaw.com

The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, or responsible for delivering some or all of this transmission to an intended recipient, you have received this transmission in error and are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from reading, copying, printing, distributing or disclosing any of the information contained in it. In that event, please contact us immediately by telephone (918) 343-4100 or by electronic mail at postmaster@soonerlaw.com mailto:postmaster@soonerlaw.com and delete the original and all copies of this transmission (including any attachments) without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you.

From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Ken Underwood
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:53 AM
To: oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest

Notice: This email is from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected e-mail.

Happy Monday

I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed?

At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law…but it is shooting for a good cause.

Fly low, they may be shooting

Shoot low they may be flying

Thanks and have a great week.

Ken Ray Underwood

Attorney at Law
The Beacon Building

406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640
Tulsa, OK 74103
Phone: 918-582-7447
Fax: 918-582-0166
Ken@ulawok.com mailto:Ken@ulawok.com

www.ulawok.com https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.ulawok.com%252f%26c%3DE%2C1%2CJ8H2vkLrcbLSj5PrjykMGesr2e2a-__WXz349ZYzSrnqi9SVd9h9-HMTJC7Kfujd_q9UuiMgH8laMq_-zQEv-xwQPpy3AgGB5dcm-aKy68EtPPCg8eMbqXvwHiA%2C%26typo%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cjbryant%40omag.org%7Cec395d89a9954be594ce08d85e633944%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C637363127566676103&sdata=XwC7iDz6lt22zh9amIZ%2BM5FUbW0V8x7DUGnNlRnmIaA%3D&reserved=0

CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.

I would add that if the prohibition is in an ordinance then the authorization to do something prohibited by the ordinance should also be done by ordinance. A resolution, technically, can’t override that which is required by an ordinance. Jon Miller City of Mustang Get Outlook for iOS<https://aka.ms/o0ukef> ________________________________ From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> on behalf of Jeff Bryant via Oama <oama@lists.imla.org> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 3:44:48 PM To: Mark Ramsey <MRamsey@soonerlaw.com>; Ken Underwood <ken@ulawok.com>; oama@lists.imla.org <oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: Re: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest I agree with Mark. The Council, as the law making body, has the ability to take an action contrary to an existing Ordinance under the principle that the Council’s most recent legislative act supersedes the prior legislative act. So, legally it can be done by Resolution or Ordinance amendments or a more recent ordinance that is contrary to an older ordinance. However, some would argue that, politically, this erodes public respect and confidence in existing ordinances or in a government that is willing it impose rules on others that it is clearly not willing to follow itself. A more comprehensive approach that tailors exceptions in well defined circumstances, or repeal of the existing ordinance that is creating the tension, might be approaches that might be better received by citizens. Hope this helps. Jeff Bryant OMAG’s COVID-19 Info Page: https://www.omag.org/covid19-faq Jeff H Bryant Director of Legal Services Associate General Counsel jbryant@omag.org<mailto:jbryant@omag.org> [OMAG Small Logo Smooth] 3650 S. Boulevard Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 Phone: 405-657-1419 Fax: 405-657-1401 www.omag.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omag.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cksesock%40omag.org%7C7b0af7708d2145459d0008d5d005912d%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C636643644718063768&sdata=O5U4CEM0kJLxSbEQIcdB%2BtRnRqcj9gWhJquY26D8F1o%3D&reserved=0> From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org> On Behalf Of Mark Ramsey Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 2:18 PM To: Ken Underwood <ken@ulawok.com>; oama@lists.imla.org Subject: Re: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest You can amend the Ordinance. Technically, I don’t think an Ordinance can be “waived” without following the same formalities as adopting an amendment. As a practical matter, you can adopt a resolution directing the Police Department to ignore the Ordinance, but I think that doesn’t look very good. Unless you have a unanimous council, it could be a problem and if a citizen complains, that could be a problem as well. If it were me, I would recommend amending the Ordinance to allow it under carefully described circumstances so you don’t make the original Ordinance meaningless. Good Luck! Mark H. Ramsey For the Firm Taylor, Foster, Mallett, Downs, Ramsey & Russell, P.C. P.O. Box 309 Claremore, OK 74018 918-343-4100 918-343-4900 fax mramsey@soonerlaw.com<mailto:apixley@soonerlaw.com> The information contained in this electronic mail transmission (including any accompanying attachments) is intended solely for its authorized recipient(s), and may be confidential and/or legally privileged. If you are not an intended recipient, or responsible for delivering some or all of this transmission to an intended recipient, you have received this transmission in error and are hereby notified that you are strictly prohibited from reading, copying, printing, distributing or disclosing any of the information contained in it. In that event, please contact us immediately by telephone (918) 343-4100 or by electronic mail at postmaster@soonerlaw.com<mailto:postmaster@soonerlaw.com> and delete the original and all copies of this transmission (including any attachments) without reading or saving in any manner. Thank you. From: Oama <oama-bounces@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama-bounces@lists.imla.org>> On Behalf Of Ken Underwood Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 11:53 AM To: oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] Charity BB gun shooting contest Notice: This email is from an external source. Do not open attachments or click on links from unknown senders or unexpected e-mail. ________________________________ Happy Monday I have a charitable organization wanting to conduct a BB gun shooting contest inside the city limits and inside a building but we have an ordinance prohibiting the discharge of firearms, including BB guns, within the city limits. The inside location is not a shooting range. Any thoughts on how the BB gun contest could be allowed? At one time we provided for beer sales during a festival and we waive ordinances by resolution or special permission for some special events but it seems a little strange to waive a firearms law…but it is shooting for a good cause. Fly low, they may be shooting Shoot low they may be flying Thanks and have a great week. Ken Ray Underwood Attorney at Law The Beacon Building 406 S. Boulder Ave., Suite 640 Tulsa, OK 74103 Phone: 918-582-7447 Fax: 918-582-0166 Ken@ulawok.com<mailto:Ken@ulawok.com> www.ulawok.com<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flinkprotect.cudasvc.com%2Furl%3Fa%3Dhttp%253a%252f%252fwww.ulawok.com%252f%26c%3DE%2C1%2CJ8H2vkLrcbLSj5PrjykMGesr2e2a-__WXz349ZYzSrnqi9SVd9h9-HMTJC7Kfujd_q9UuiMgH8laMq_-zQEv-xwQPpy3AgGB5dcm-aKy68EtPPCg8eMbqXvwHiA%2C%26typo%3D1&data=02%7C01%7Cjbryant%40omag.org%7Cec395d89a9954be594ce08d85e633944%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C637363127566676103&sdata=XwC7iDz6lt22zh9amIZ%2BM5FUbW0V8x7DUGnNlRnmIaA%3D&reserved=0> CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail message, and all attachments transmitted with it, may contain legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the use of the intended recipient. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or the employee or agent responsible to deliver it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any reading, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by telephone (918) 582-7447, or by electronic mail to ken@ulawok.com<mailto:kenunderwood@tulsacoxmail.com>, and delete this message and all copies and backups thereof. Thank you.