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VSC inspections

DH
David H Sorenson
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 7:17 PM

Well gang, heres even more food for thought. Up north where we live, it
is time to start thinking about the annual Vessel Safety Check (VSC). We
have never failed an inspection with either the regular CG or the CG
auxiliary.

But, in my view, there are some things required which are archaic such as
flares and there are other things that should be included such as an
anchor system and a VHF radio. (Sorry about that Rudy.)

In a day when marine radios were expensive, bulky, and temperamental; it
probably made sense not to require them aboard a small craft on navigable
and coastal waters. But today they are cheap, reliable, and simple to
use. In all our years of boating, I have only had one occasion where I
was aware of someone firing their flares and that was in pea-soup fog
when a blow boat panicked and shot his off. (Nobody saw them, but a boat
nearby heard them.) BTW, I only know about it because somebody got on the
VHF and called the CG to report a sail boat had shot his flares off. To
the contrary, we hear boaters calling for help on the radio with some
degree of regularity when they get in trouble on Lake Superior.

And who would leave port onto navigable water without an anchor? When we
have monitored radio communications between pleasure craft in trouble and
the
CG, one of the questions the CG asks is if they have an anchor or if they
can anchor.

Sooo, what is the procedure for getting the inspection standards changed?
It seems to me an orange distress flag and flares are from the era of
Packards and Edsells. My SOS light is even more high tech than that.

David Sorenson
Duluth, MN
(Boat still cover with snow, but it is melting fast)


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Well gang, heres even more food for thought. Up north where we live, it is time to start thinking about the annual Vessel Safety Check (VSC). We have never failed an inspection with either the regular CG or the CG auxiliary. But, in my view, there are some things required which are archaic such as flares and there are other things that should be included such as an anchor system and a VHF radio. (Sorry about that Rudy.) In a day when marine radios were expensive, bulky, and temperamental; it probably made sense not to require them aboard a small craft on navigable and coastal waters. But today they are cheap, reliable, and simple to use. In all our years of boating, I have only had one occasion where I was aware of someone firing their flares and that was in pea-soup fog when a blow boat panicked and shot his off. (Nobody saw them, but a boat nearby heard them.) BTW, I only know about it because somebody got on the VHF and called the CG to report a sail boat had shot his flares off. To the contrary, we hear boaters calling for help on the radio with some degree of regularity when they get in trouble on Lake Superior. And who would leave port onto navigable water without an anchor? When we have monitored radio communications between pleasure craft in trouble and the CG, one of the questions the CG asks is if they have an anchor or if they can anchor. Sooo, what is the procedure for getting the inspection standards changed? It seems to me an orange distress flag and flares are from the era of Packards and Edsells. My SOS light is even more high tech than that. David Sorenson Duluth, MN (Boat still cover with snow, but it is melting fast) ____________________________________________________________ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=wx31sajBZfoJoXIexJZ54AAAJ1CFlD1gJbvC_R9CWPD0a2tMAAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA=
LH
L H
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 7:50 PM

David H Sorenson wrote:

Well gang, heres even more food for thought. Up north where we live, it
is time to start thinking about the annual Vessel Safety Check (VSC). We
have never failed an inspection with either the regular CG or the CG
auxiliary.
Sooo, what is the procedure for getting the inspection standards changed?
It seems to me an orange distress flag and flares are from the era of
Packards and Edsells. My SOS light is even more high tech than that.

David,

How about when your electrical system fries, or the batteries in the
handheld are dead?  How about when your boat is burning, and you grab
your ditch bag and flotation and jump into the water?

Flares can alert people who cannot see you floating in the water or in
your gray inflatable in a seaway.  Flares can call attention to your
location for the searchers in an aircraft or the fisherman who is
otherwise busy fishing.  The orange flag can be tied flat on the deck so
aircraft can figure out which boat needs the help.

Self contained flares don't require any batteries or flare launcher (gun).

Larry H

David H Sorenson wrote: > Well gang, heres even more food for thought. Up north where we live, it > is time to start thinking about the annual Vessel Safety Check (VSC). We > have never failed an inspection with either the regular CG or the CG > auxiliary. > Sooo, what is the procedure for getting the inspection standards changed? > It seems to me an orange distress flag and flares are from the era of > Packards and Edsells. My SOS light is even more high tech than that. > David, How about when your electrical system fries, or the batteries in the handheld are dead? How about when your boat is burning, and you grab your ditch bag and flotation and jump into the water? Flares can alert people who cannot see you floating in the water or in your gray inflatable in a seaway. Flares can call attention to your location for the searchers in an aircraft or the fisherman who is otherwise busy fishing. The orange flag can be tied flat on the deck so aircraft can figure out which boat needs the help. Self contained flares don't require any batteries or flare launcher (gun). Larry H
AD
Al Dente
Wed, Mar 10, 2010 9:43 PM

Sorry, but I strongly disagree.  Flares alert those who are not listening to
the handy radio, the people sitting on the deck in the evening enjoying the
beach front house looking out to sea. Living on the Atlantic coast flares
are often what is seen first and have directed search and rescue efforts.
Radios require power which is not always available in an emergency. Flares
do not.
I loved my grandfather's Packard, and I am always glad to have a stack of
flares aboard (and my radio).

George

On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 2:17 PM, David H Sorenson davidsorenson@juno.comwrote:

But, in my view, there are some things required which are archaic such as
flares and there are other things that should be included such as an
anchor system and a VHF radio. (Sorry about that Rudy.)

I
(

Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Flares alert those who are not listening to the handy radio, the people sitting on the deck in the evening enjoying the beach front house looking out to sea. Living on the Atlantic coast flares are often what is seen first and have directed search and rescue efforts. Radios require power which is not always available in an emergency. Flares do not. I loved my grandfather's Packard, and I am always glad to have a stack of flares aboard (and my radio). George On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 2:17 PM, David H Sorenson <davidsorenson@juno.com>wrote: > > > But, in my view, there are some things required which are archaic such as > flares and there are other things that should be included such as an > anchor system and a VHF radio. (Sorry about that Rudy.) > > I > (
RL
Roger Lalonde
Thu, Mar 11, 2010 12:22 AM

A long reply... from a rescuer's point of view.

The laws have changed to some extent... there are some vessels that were
required to have 12 flares as per minimum equipment list and as of last year
in Canada this has been reduced to 6 flares on vessels less than I believe
is 9 meters. (I'll have to check to make sure). The law was supposed to
change in spring 09 however I am not sure it did pass in parliament. There
are exceptions, one, on some smaller crafts (personal water crafts) you do
have a choice of an anchor or flares...

Now for flares... VHF radio and distress calls. David, when I saw your
posting I immediately went to check my list of missions (over 700) done over
the last 30 years and to my surprise approximately 1 in 7 vessels in
distress will use one two or three flares to signal distress or a position
during a mission. The reasons are varied. When in a mission the Coast Guard
ask if you are anchored for a few reason. A moving target is had to hit. You
may be searching in one area as per a certain search pattern... there is a
way to determine positions as and when info comes in. Incoming information
can come in by the distress vessel, spotting on radar from the rescuing
vessel or a commercial vessel or laker, planes, helicopters sightings, from
shore, police, friends (overdue vessels) or an estimated position as per
info from the distress vessel and so on. Many many distress vessels will
give a position that they estimate to be accurate... to them. When perceived
by a crew of different vessels and the way it is viewed, that position can
be very wide and far from the actual position. In good weather and good
visibility many boaters have a difficult time to give an accurate position.
We as rescuers have to worry about these boaters. They do not attempt to go
far away from shore and have less experience... therefore need the flares in
case. Then the more experience you have... the further you go from shore and
the bigger the vessel gets and then the more you need more flares.

Now let's communicate... some will use VHF radio and do so the proper way in
distress. However many in and around busy areas will use cellular traffic
and this is a big problem. Batteries go dead. After a distress vessel calls
*16 for help, a Coast Guard Station will pick up on this and will take the
phone number so that the rescuer can return a call to zoom in to help.
Situation is that after they call for help, they call every Tom, Dick and
Harry to tell them a story all the while a rescuer is trying to return a
call to the distress vessel. This consumes time from a crew member that has
a task of getting in contact with the distressed vessel. Then when the crew
does get through... ah! sorry by my phone is losing battery power. Now there
is frustration and miscommunication and all this consumes time, on VHF radio
communication we can triangulate a vhf signal to zoom in. This is common
practice and works very well.

Now let's talk about anchors... During courtesy checks, all vessels are
asked if they have an anchor. Not all will inspect the anchor. I make sure
my crew check out size, fixation and the OTHER end of the line to find out
that most have forgotten to tie it inside the anchor locker and we find
those boats that have no more anchor.

Now let's talk common sense... Radios, flares, anchor, etc.. are tools to
help yourself and I will be the first one to agree that this equipment is
expensive for the boater that goes out only a few times a year and never
goes very far. And during an inspection I always joke around and say... "How
much do you like yourself ", is the expense worth it for you and your vessel
to come back and I always get a laugh and a story... Captains worry more
about their boat or vessel and not their wives...

Now.... there is a reason why there are laws for equipment. With the
scenario(s) discussed add adverse weather, fog, rain, waves and
inexperienced crews and different visitors and different personalities and
trauma. I do not discuss the price of these tools that will help during a
rescue but the insurance all of this brings to bring everyone back to shore
safe and sound. The first time you call for help with the radio, the radio
pays for itself. The first time you use flares... they were worth the price.
The time you will drop the anchor and it does not hold... the next time
there will be a better anchor. It is the Captain's responsibility to bring
back all passengers... even the first timers on a vessels.

Sorry for the length of this reply...

Roger Lalonde
Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary
Summerstown ON canada

----- Original Message -----
From: "David H Sorenson" davidsorenson@juno.com
To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:17 PM
Subject: T&T: VSC inspections

Well gang, heres even more food for thought. Up north where we live, it
is time to start thinking about the annual Vessel Safety Check (VSC). We
have never failed an inspection with either the regular CG or the CG
auxiliary.

But, in my view, there are some things required which are archaic such as
flares and there are other things that should be included such as an
anchor system and a VHF radio.

David Sorenson
Duluth, MN

A long reply... from a rescuer's point of view. The laws have changed to some extent... there are some vessels that were required to have 12 flares as per minimum equipment list and as of last year in Canada this has been reduced to 6 flares on vessels less than I believe is 9 meters. (I'll have to check to make sure). The law was supposed to change in spring 09 however I am not sure it did pass in parliament. There are exceptions, one, on some smaller crafts (personal water crafts) you do have a choice of an anchor or flares... Now for flares... VHF radio and distress calls. David, when I saw your posting I immediately went to check my list of missions (over 700) done over the last 30 years and to my surprise approximately 1 in 7 vessels in distress will use one two or three flares to signal distress or a position during a mission. The reasons are varied. When in a mission the Coast Guard ask if you are anchored for a few reason. A moving target is had to hit. You may be searching in one area as per a certain search pattern... there is a way to determine positions as and when info comes in. Incoming information can come in by the distress vessel, spotting on radar from the rescuing vessel or a commercial vessel or laker, planes, helicopters sightings, from shore, police, friends (overdue vessels) or an estimated position as per info from the distress vessel and so on. Many many distress vessels will give a position that they estimate to be accurate... to them. When perceived by a crew of different vessels and the way it is viewed, that position can be very wide and far from the actual position. In good weather and good visibility many boaters have a difficult time to give an accurate position. We as rescuers have to worry about these boaters. They do not attempt to go far away from shore and have less experience... therefore need the flares in case. Then the more experience you have... the further you go from shore and the bigger the vessel gets and then the more you need more flares. Now let's communicate... some will use VHF radio and do so the proper way in distress. However many in and around busy areas will use cellular traffic and this is a big problem. Batteries go dead. After a distress vessel calls *16 for help, a Coast Guard Station will pick up on this and will take the phone number so that the rescuer can return a call to zoom in to help. Situation is that after they call for help, they call every Tom, Dick and Harry to tell them a story all the while a rescuer is trying to return a call to the distress vessel. This consumes time from a crew member that has a task of getting in contact with the distressed vessel. Then when the crew does get through... ah! sorry by my phone is losing battery power. Now there is frustration and miscommunication and all this consumes time, on VHF radio communication we can triangulate a vhf signal to zoom in. This is common practice and works very well. Now let's talk about anchors... During courtesy checks, all vessels are asked if they have an anchor. Not all will inspect the anchor. I make sure my crew check out size, fixation and the OTHER end of the line to find out that most have forgotten to tie it inside the anchor locker and we find those boats that have no more anchor. Now let's talk common sense... Radios, flares, anchor, etc.. are tools to help yourself and I will be the first one to agree that this equipment is expensive for the boater that goes out only a few times a year and never goes very far. And during an inspection I always joke around and say... "How much do you like yourself ", is the expense worth it for you and your vessel to come back and I always get a laugh and a story... Captains worry more about their boat or vessel and not their wives... Now.... there is a reason why there are laws for equipment. With the scenario(s) discussed add adverse weather, fog, rain, waves and inexperienced crews and different visitors and different personalities and trauma. I do not discuss the price of these tools that will help during a rescue but the insurance all of this brings to bring everyone back to shore safe and sound. The first time you call for help with the radio, the radio pays for itself. The first time you use flares... they were worth the price. The time you will drop the anchor and it does not hold... the next time there will be a better anchor. It is the Captain's responsibility to bring back all passengers... even the first timers on a vessels. Sorry for the length of this reply... Roger Lalonde Canadian Coast Guard Auxiliary Summerstown ON canada ----- Original Message ----- From: "David H Sorenson" <davidsorenson@juno.com> To: <trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2010 2:17 PM Subject: T&T: VSC inspections > Well gang, heres even more food for thought. Up north where we live, it > is time to start thinking about the annual Vessel Safety Check (VSC). We > have never failed an inspection with either the regular CG or the CG > auxiliary. > > But, in my view, there are some things required which are archaic such as > flares and there are other things that should be included such as an > anchor system and a VHF radio. > David Sorenson > Duluth, MN