Re: [PCW] Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
Like most boaters I started out in monohulls but soon switched to cats and
the only time I ever found a cat to be jerky was on a Crowther Spindrift 42'
with very fine bows. Once it started to pitch/jerk the only way to stop it
was to turn 90 degrees or more till it stopped then fall back on course.
Obviously I haven't been on a lot of different types of power catamarans and
maybe some designs do jerk. I built and sailed a Hitchiker 33' from
Australia the long way round, via the Med. To the Caribbean where I sold it
and I never found it jerky. I operated a 103' power catamaran in the Med.
Sailed on cats in the BVI and I've delivered most of the Trawlercats I built
in Canada down to the States and I've never felt this jerky motion.
Maybe monohull drivers have become used to the slow rolling motion of their
boats. As cats are quicker so is the motion quicker, be it pitch or roll.
To say they get sore muscles from the motion of a cat may be a sign of an
unfit person and not a bad design and once they improve their compensating
muscles they won't notice the motion anymore as it will be reflexed out.
It might be interesting to find a boater who started out on catamarans and
has never experienced the rolling motion of a monohull. How would he like
the rolling motion of a monohull, he might find it totally unacceptable.
It's all about what we know and expect from a boat or what we evolve into.
I can see short, high cats like the PDQ pitching in short choppy seas and
I've experienced this in cats and mono's myself. The lighter cats are more
easily moved about by waves, unless you're talking about fast planning cats
that crash through waves. Even a properly designed cruising power cat will
give a jerky motion as it encounters wave resistance head on at speeds of
eight knots or more.
A power cats sideways motion will be different as it lifts one hull to a
passing wave and then the other hull as the wave passes under it lifting it
too. This up and down motion twice per wave on the beam could be described
as jerky, but to most people who suffer some sea-sickness it is a much more
acceptable motion than a gunwale to gunwale roll that a monohull would
provide in the same situation.
Graham Pfister
President & Lead Designer
Trawlercat Marine Designs
Vancouver, Canada
www.trawlercatmarine.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Power-Catamaran digest..."
Today's Topics:
- will power cats gain from the AC choosing a cat (Dennis Raedeke)
- Video of Catamaran vs. Mono Hull (Jim Garner)
- Re: Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
(Robert Phillips) - Re: Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup? (Rich)
- Re: Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup? (Larry G.)
- getting ready for a blow here in Bermuda (Jonah Jones)
- Re: Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
(Pat Reischmann)
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:50:21 -0400
From: Robert Phillips bob@doylecaribbean.com
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
Message-ID: 6F81D5EB-4C74-4917-92E7-816DA7C5D843@doylecaribbean.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
< RQ, you are letting your performance racing background cloud your vision.
I have spent a week each October for the last two years on a Robertson and
Caine 46 power cat, using it for race committee work, for which it is the
most
fabulous platform. Lots of upper deck space with incredible visibility,
fast
enough to get to the finish area ahead of the racing monohulls, lovely
cockpit
for evening entertainment.
One problem is that my hips are sore from compensating for the quick little
motions generated by even the smallest wavelets. Sure, I could probably get
used to it, but there is also the space issue in the hulls; long narrow
spaces.
The master on my trawler is 15 x 17 with walk in closets and true queen
berth,
plus a separate fifty square foot bathroom with room for two people. I
don't
roll because of the anti-roll tank I had installed, and I get two miles to
the
gallon at eight knots.
I am happy at eight knots and enjoy nights at sea cruising under the stars
in
a relaxed state, which you don't get at speeds above displacement. My
efficiency isn't adversely affected by how much fuel I carry or food and
water, or how many passengers I have. Sure, I draw five and a half feet,
but
my wheels are fully protected.
I have customers who traded their Tayana 55 for a Voyage 580 a few years
ago.
They sailed it down here from Lauderdale and put it up for sale. They had
circumnavigated on their Tayana and commented that no one had warned them of
the noise and quick motion of a cat. They were used to sleeping at sea in
the
aft cabin of their Tayana, with an easy motion and quietness, even going
upwind; just the opposite with the cat. They sold the cat fairly quickly
and
bought a 135' fishing trawler, which they have turned into an expedition
yacht, setting off again in real comfort!
I love cats. I love the speed. I would sail on the new AC boats in a
heartbeat, given the opportunity. I love going fast at sea and the
adrenaline
rush generated by jumping over wave tops in big boats. My wife spent a day
embedded on ABM AMRO One when they were here for their Caribbean racing tour
following their win in the Volvo RTWR and raved about the experience for
weeks, as she did every time we raced the Stiletto 30 offshore, or any of
the
other race boats she's sailed on. Speed junkies.
I love zipping around the BVI in our Cattech 29 with twelve people at twenty
knots and burning only four GPH. It is much more comfortable to spend the
day
on doing race committee work than the Scarab 38 that I have used or my 23
Seacraft. It is the future for efficient travel short distance; I will be
taking it to St. Maarten and other Caribbean Islands with no qualms as the
trip will be short
However, when it is just the two of us we prefer the slow lane, lazing on
our
upper deck watching the scenery going by at a nice easy motion!
Robert Phillips, Managing Director
Doyle Sailmakers BVI, Ltd
Tel: +284-494-2569
Mobile: +284-541-2206
VOIP US Tel: 423-285-8752
Skype: doylebvi
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 11:16:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Larry G." texflot@yahoo.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
Message-ID: 681040.64759.qm@web55507.mail.re4.yahoo.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Robert:
Your perspectives on the comparison of the cat vs. mono are insightful,
and
useful to remember when looking at cats in the future. A year ago, I spent
the night on a PDQ 34, and acquired a back ache through no fault of the cat
itself. But after, the problem became exacerbated by the snap roll of the
cat, which I wasn't used to. The problem is gone now, and I still like cats
and how they are evolving, but it's easy to believe that those used to the
gentle roll of a mono will indeed have some adjusting to do when moving to a
cat. I've heard an equal amount of positive comments about switching the
other way. Each to his own. Thanks for your insightful comments.
Lawrence Giles
Berlin
--- On Sat, 9/18/10, Robert Phillips bob@doylecaribbean.com wrote:
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 19:41:00 -0400
From: "Pat Reischmann" preischmann@msn.com
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
Message-ID: BAY123-DS5AA7F36FCD4BF0768CB82BF7C0@phx.gbl
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
RQ, what length is your trawler, what power plant? Not all cats are high
performance or light. I am just finishing building a 52 ft. aluminum sail
cat
that weighs 45000 lbs. It has a freestanding mast and dosent have a quick
snappy motion. Ted Hood's displacement cats, or the trawler cat line might
be
a better comparison to your boat than the Roberston Caine. The Voyage's
needs
more bridge deck clearance, could be part of the problem for your customers
experience.
5.5 draft would make it tough in the Bahamas and other popular cruising
areas.
The displaning canoe stern cat designs, with good hull fineness will run at
8
knots and burn 2 gal/hr or less, but where the really outshine monohulls is
around 16-17 knots where some only burn 10-12 gal/hr, and it is nice to go
that fast if you want to.
Pat
----- Original Message -----
From: Robert Phillipsmailto:bob@doylecaribbean.com
To:
power-catamaran@lists.samurai.commailto:power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PCW] Will power catamarans gain from the America's Cup?
< RQ, you are letting your performance racing background cloud your
vision.
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
End of Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 65, Issue 10