Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43
From Graham Pfister
Vancouver, Canada
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but basically what everyone is saying is
that there is no equivalent production power catamaran to a Nordhavn 43' as
they have been building this boat in Asia for a long time and the boat has a
great 'proven' track record as a passage maker. Production Power catamaran
models are limited to coastal types at best. All true passage making power
catamarans have been custom built designs, read expensive.
I can verify what Mark said about cruising under sail. I built and launched
a 33' x 22' Hitchhiker sailing catamaran in Australia in 1984. I lived
aboard it in Sydney until 1987 and then I set out to cruise around the
world. I can guarantee you that I motor sailed 75% of the way as did many
monohull boats that I travelled with and we were in the trade wind belt and
in season, but there was not much wind around. I even wrote poetry about it
motoring across the Atlantic on calm seas. Global warming has really messed
up the trade winds and the weather generally for that matter.
Unfortunately my 2 x 10hp single cylinder BMW diesels were not up to the
task and after motor sailing over a third of the way around Australia to
Darwin, across the Indian Ocean, up the Red Sea, through the Suez Canal to
Turkey I had to rebuild the engines as motor sailing at around 800 rpm, one
engine at a time, ran them very hot and the rings wore and the valves and
seats cooked. I continued on motor sailing through the Mediterranean down
to the Canary's and across the Atlantic. I finished up selling the boat in
Puerto Rico and swore that 'next time' it would be in a power cat and that's
what led me to design a 45' trawler cat.
If you are going coastal, or within a days motoring to a safe harbor or
anchorage, then check out some of the power catamarans that charter out of
the British Virgin Islands. It's also the place to pick up a reasonably
good used power or sailing cat, either of which might just work for you.
You might be able to get a reduced rate 'try before you buy' charter, or a
seven day charter free if you buy at the end of the charter.
An equivalent power cat to a Nordhavn 43', with a 3,000 nm range, would have
to be custom built and would cost anywhere from $800,000.00 to a million
depending on the gear you want to fit.
Cheers,
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: power-catamaran-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:power-catamaran-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:00 PM
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 53, Issue 14
Send Power-Catamaran mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:
-
Re: Caracal 180, was Two Cat owner (house1@cableone.net)
-
Re: Fwd: equivalent (Bill Carlson, Sr.)
-
Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Georgs Kolesnikovs)
-
Re: Fwd: equivalent (WARD RINEHART)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Christian Capelle)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(WARD RINEHART)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent (Noelle Harrott)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent (alanse@iinet.net.au)
-
Re: Fwd: equivalent (Bill Carlson, Sr.)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Christian Capelle)
-
Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Henry Clews)
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:46 +0000
From: house1@cableone.net
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Caracal 180, was Two Cat owner
Message-ID:
<387595397-1253965073-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-532715443-@bd
a446.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Company is shut down but the boats are built like tanks. Caracal is a sweet
ride DB ------Original Message------
From: Georgs Kolesnikovs
Sender: power-catamaran-bounces+house1=cableone.net@lists.samurai.com
To: Power Catamaran List
ReplyTo: Power Catamaran List
Subject: [PCW] Caracal 180, was Two Cat owner
Sent: Sep 25, 2009 9:06 PM
Site see:
https://floridasportfishing.com/magazine/boats-reviews/caracal-180-catamaran
-2.html
http://www.powercatboats.com/caracal/why.htm
http://boyzntheirtoyz.com/caracal.htm
The factory site at www.CaracalBoats.com doesn't seem to be working.
--Georgs
On 25-Sep-09, at 6:31 PM, Bob Austin wrote:
We finally decided on a very lightly used 2007 Caracal 18, lined
center console. (There was a rolled edge, unlined model made a few
years earlier).
In part our quest was complicated by the fact that most builders of
small cats, especially single engine boats ere out of business in the
US.
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Sent from my Cellular South BlackBerry. Smartphone
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:05:21 -0400
From: "Bill Carlson, Sr." bcarlson@erols.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
Message-ID: E23A7F09-52F6-42F5-86BE-3EC58DA609EB@erols.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a Crosswater
http://crosswatercats.com/ The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but
I still think it is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
On Sep 25, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Mark wrote:
"equivalent" is different for different people. There are very few
production long range cats. The PDQ 41 would be similar in size, I
can't comment on quality, and certainly doesn't have the range.
Most of the cats from larger manufacturers are semi-planing or tweaks
of sailing designs, so won't have the range either, Lagoon 43/44,
Fountaine Pajot, Robertson/Caine, Alliaura (Privilege)
Transcat. Then there are the Aus/NZ boats, Prowler, Aventure, etc.
The new Maine Cat P-47 reportedly can do 3000nm+ if you stick to
7-8knots, they have a reputation for high quality, is probably much
bigger then the N43. It's new, so there is much unknown. There
are a few long range Malcolm Tenant designs out there, but I believe
they are all custom and much larger. Depending on what you want, you
might be able to go custom for the price of a new N43, I'm thinking of
Robert Deering's recent launch. It's certainly not a LRC or plush
Nordy, but you can tweak the hull shape, engines, props, without
significantly changing the required materials or labor. Range is one
the key differentiators for Nordhavn, Dave Abbot (www.maxingout.com)
spent 11 years circumnavigating on a sailing cat, which he calls the
perfect motorsailer. So you might consider a sailing cat and think of
it as a trawler with sails as a range booster for long passages. One
of the secrets of long range sailors is that they motor an awful lot.
Mark
Marina del Rey, CA
----- Original Message ----
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Sent: Fri, September 25, 2009 2:55:52 PM
Subject: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Subject: equivalent
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:08:15 -0400
From: Georgs Kolesnikovs gxk@earthlink.net
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID: 98C6D813-44F7-4996-B512-A88C68FE53DC@earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters is
that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos, completing a
circumnavigation of the world this year:
http://kosmos.liveflux.net/blog/our-boat/
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price of
795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind Wind IV
and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are larger, more
spacious yachts.
http://www.pachoud.co.nz/yachts/wild-wind-IV.asp
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater http://crosswatercats.com/ The economic downturn put it out
of my reach, but I still think it is the best all-around boat for the
$$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:07:47 -0500
From: WARD RINEHART wardrinehart@gmail.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
Message-ID:
<89521e560909260807u6891e4a8o8c150fbdfee77750@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Try Endeavourcats in Clearwater Florida. They build a high quality boat but
with les fancy trim. Their 44 and their 48 are truely excellent boats.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr.
bcarlson@erols.comwrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater http://crosswatercats.com/ The economic downturn put it out
of my reach, but I still think it is the best all-around boat for the
$$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
On Sep 25, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Mark wrote:
"equivalent" is different for different people. There are very few
production long range cats. The PDQ 41 would be similar in size, I
can't comment on quality, and certainly doesn't have the range. Most
of the cats from larger manufacturers are semi-planing or tweaks of
sailing designs, so won't have the range either, Lagoon 43/44,
Fountaine Pajot, Robertson/Caine, Alliaura (Privilege) Transcat.
Then there are the Aus/NZ boats, Prowler, Aventure, etc. The new
Maine Cat P-47 reportedly can do 3000nm+ if you stick to 7-8knots, they
have a reputation for high quality, is probably much
bigger then the N43. It's new, so there is much unknown. There are a
few
long range Malcolm Tenant designs out there, but I believe they are
all custom and much larger. Depending on what you want, you might be
able to go custom for the price of a new N43, I'm thinking of Robert
Deering's recent launch. It's certainly not a LRC or plush Nordy,
but you can tweak the hull shape, engines, props, without
significantly changing the required materials or labor. Range is one
the key differentiators for Nordhavn, Dave Abbot (www.maxingout.com)
spent 11 years circumnavigating on a sailing cat, which he calls the
perfect motorsailer. So you might consider a sailing cat and think
of it as a trawler with sails as a range booster for long passages.
One of the secrets of long range sailors is that they motor an awful lot.
Mark
Marina del Rey, CA
----- Original Message ----
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Sent: Fri, September 25, 2009 2:55:52 PM
Subject: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Subject: equivalent
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
--
WM WARDEN RINEHART
CHICAGO, IL 60657
tel: 773-272-6212
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:10:22 +0200
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID:
<70891ca00909260910n7837309aub5564fc7c53a99b6@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You are right Georgs, primarily I am planning to sail in the Caribbean sea
and south America, not necessary ocean crossing. Of course a Nordhavn 40
would also do. I really like the stability, living space, and low draft of a
catamaran if any would come with quality and reliability of the Nordhavn.
best Regards
Christian
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Georgs Kolesnikovs
gxk@earthlink.netwrote:
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters
is that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos,
completing a circumnavigation of the world this year:
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price
of 795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind
Wind IV and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are
larger, more spacious yachts.
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater
The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but I still think it
is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to
a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:43:18 -0500
From: WARD RINEHART wardrinehart@gmail.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID:
<89521e560909260943o6f6627fen46c0054d69964118@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I recommend you consider Endeavour cats from Clearwater Florida. Good
boats. Not necessarily fancy trim, but good quality hulls and
construction. Great designs of the 44 and 48 for live aboard
possibilities. I have sea trialed the 48 and found her to move comfortably
and with stability. Good luck.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Christian Capelle
ccapelle@gmail.comwrote:
You are right Georgs, primarily I am planning to sail in the Caribbean sea
and south America, not necessary ocean crossing. Of course a Nordhavn 40
would also do. I really like the stability, living space, and low draft of
a
catamaran if any would come with quality and reliability of the Nordhavn.
best Regards
Christian
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Georgs Kolesnikovs <gxk@earthlink.net
wrote:
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters
is that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos,
completing a circumnavigation of the world this year:
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price
of 795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind
Wind IV and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are
larger, more spacious yachts.
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater
The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but I still think it
is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to
a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
--
WM WARDEN RINEHART
CHICAGO, IL 60657
tel: 773-272-6212
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:45:42 -1000
From: "Noelle Harrott" harrott@hawaii.rr.com
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID: 6A4A47265F854341A9EF7BABDFB0CAE7@noelle
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Well, here's another two cents worth of opinion on the equivalent topic...
Christian, you've stated that your primary cruising area will be in warm
latitudes which would eliminate one of the Nordhavn's prime attributes.
They are a "wild-weather" boat, great insulation,
heating and a protected pilothouse with good visibility. Their hullforms are
designed for formidable seakeeping. In an awful sea-state I would probably
feel most secure (and comfortable) in a Nordhavn than in a similarly sized
Powercat. The displacement difference of the two designs probably accounts
for much of that difference.
If size and cost should be equivalent as well as rang and speed then I must
agree with Mark that sailing cats are worth a look.
The Gunboat 48 is unique in that it has a fabulous inside steering station
as well as a forward cockpit. If sailing is not out of the question then the
Gunboat offers speeds around twice that of the smaller Nordhavns. Motoring
speeds should also exceed that of the monohull.By adding a backup watermaker
and converting the watertanks to fuel,
motoring range becomes very useful. The sailing capabilities only add to
the safety at sea
The build quality of these boats is very high and the space advantages will
add to boating enjoyment.
I'm sure that Rod Gibbons could weigh in with some valuable insights on the
topic.
Thank you for posing such a stimulating question on this list which has been
rather dormant of late.
Regards, Bert Harrott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Georgs Kolesnikovs" gxk@earthlink.net
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 4:08 AM
Subject: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters
is that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos,
completing a circumnavigation of the world this year:
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price
of 795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind
Wind IV and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are
larger, more spacious yachts.
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater
The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but I still think it
is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Hi to all,
Very new to p0wer cats.
Looking to do Eastern USA coastal thing and the islands.
I know that Nordhavn are way out of my price range.
Any comments on this gem?
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1993/Carri-Craft-Diesel-Catamaran-2022924/Gibsonton/FL/United-States
Cheers to all,
Ed
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Graham graham@trawlercatmarine.com wrote:
From Graham Pfister
Vancouver, Canada
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but basically what everyone is saying is
that there is no equivalent production power catamaran to a Nordhavn 43' as
they have been building this boat in Asia for a long time and the boat has
a
great 'proven' track record as a passage maker. Production Power catamaran
models are limited to coastal types at best. All true passage making power
catamarans have been custom built designs, read expensive.
I can verify what Mark said about cruising under sail. I built and
launched
a 33' x 22' Hitchhiker sailing catamaran in Australia in 1984. I lived
aboard it in Sydney until 1987 and then I set out to cruise around the
world. I can guarantee you that I motor sailed 75% of the way as did many
monohull boats that I travelled with and we were in the trade wind belt and
in season, but there was not much wind around. I even wrote poetry about
it
motoring across the Atlantic on calm seas. Global warming has really
messed
up the trade winds and the weather generally for that matter.
Unfortunately my 2 x 10hp single cylinder BMW diesels were not up to the
task and after motor sailing over a third of the way around Australia to
Darwin, across the Indian Ocean, up the Red Sea, through the Suez Canal to
Turkey I had to rebuild the engines as motor sailing at around 800 rpm, one
engine at a time, ran them very hot and the rings wore and the valves and
seats cooked. I continued on motor sailing through the Mediterranean down
to the Canary's and across the Atlantic. I finished up selling the boat in
Puerto Rico and swore that 'next time' it would be in a power cat and
that's
what led me to design a 45' trawler cat.
If you are going coastal, or within a days motoring to a safe harbor or
anchorage, then check out some of the power catamarans that charter out of
the British Virgin Islands. It's also the place to pick up a reasonably
good used power or sailing cat, either of which might just work for you.
You might be able to get a reduced rate 'try before you buy' charter, or a
seven day charter free if you buy at the end of the charter.
An equivalent power cat to a Nordhavn 43', with a 3,000 nm range, would
have
to be custom built and would cost anywhere from $800,000.00 to a million
depending on the gear you want to fit.
Cheers,
Graham
-----Original Message-----
From: power-catamaran-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:power-catamaran-bounces@lists.samurai.com] On Behalf Of
power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:00 PM
To: power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Power-Catamaran Digest, Vol 53, Issue 14
Send Power-Catamaran mailing list submissions to
power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://lists.samurai.com/mailman/listinfo/power-catamaran
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
power-catamaran-request@lists.samurai.com
You can reach the person managing the list at
power-catamaran-owner@lists.samurai.com
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than
"Re: Contents of Power-Catamaran digest..."
Today's Topics:
-
Re: Caracal 180, was Two Cat owner (house1@cableone.net)
-
Re: Fwd: equivalent (Bill Carlson, Sr.)
-
Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Georgs Kolesnikovs)
-
Re: Fwd: equivalent (WARD RINEHART)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Christian Capelle)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(WARD RINEHART)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent (Noelle Harrott)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent (alanse@iinet.net.au)
-
Re: Fwd: equivalent (Bill Carlson, Sr.)
-
Re: Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Christian Capelle)
-
Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
(Henry Clews)
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:37:46 +0000
From: house1@cableone.net
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Caracal 180, was Two Cat owner
Message-ID:
<387595397-1253965073-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-532715443-@bd
a446.bisx.prod.on.blackberry>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Company is shut down but the boats are built like tanks. Caracal is a sweet
ride DB ------Original Message------
From: Georgs Kolesnikovs
Sender: power-catamaran-bounces+house1=cableone.net@lists.samurai.com
To: Power Catamaran List
ReplyTo: Power Catamaran List
Subject: [PCW] Caracal 180, was Two Cat owner
Sent: Sep 25, 2009 9:06 PM
Site see:
https://floridasportfishing.com/magazine/boats-reviews/caracal-180-catamaran
-2.htmlhttps://floridasportfishing.com/magazine/boats-reviews/caracal-180-catamaran%0A-2.html
http://www.powercatboats.com/caracal/why.htm
http://boyzntheirtoyz.com/caracal.htm
The factory site at www.CaracalBoats.com doesn't seem to be working.
--Georgs
On 25-Sep-09, at 6:31 PM, Bob Austin wrote:
We finally decided on a very lightly used 2007 Caracal 18, lined
center console. (There was a rolled edge, unlined model made a few
years earlier).
In part our quest was complicated by the fact that most builders of
small cats, especially single engine boats ere out of business in the
US.
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Sent from my Cellular South BlackBerry. Smartphone
Message: 2
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 09:05:21 -0400
From: "Bill Carlson, Sr." bcarlson@erols.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
Message-ID: E23A7F09-52F6-42F5-86BE-3EC58DA609EB@erols.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a Crosswater
http://crosswatercats.com/ The economic downturn put it out of my reach,
but
I still think it is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
On Sep 25, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Mark wrote:
"equivalent" is different for different people. There are very few
production long range cats. The PDQ 41 would be similar in size, I
can't comment on quality, and certainly doesn't have the range.
Most of the cats from larger manufacturers are semi-planing or tweaks
of sailing designs, so won't have the range either, Lagoon 43/44,
Fountaine Pajot, Robertson/Caine, Alliaura (Privilege)
Transcat. Then there are the Aus/NZ boats, Prowler, Aventure, etc.
The new Maine Cat P-47 reportedly can do 3000nm+ if you stick to
7-8knots, they have a reputation for high quality, is probably much
bigger then the N43. It's new, so there is much unknown. There
are a few long range Malcolm Tenant designs out there, but I believe
they are all custom and much larger. Depending on what you want, you
might be able to go custom for the price of a new N43, I'm thinking of
Robert Deering's recent launch. It's certainly not a LRC or plush
Nordy, but you can tweak the hull shape, engines, props, without
significantly changing the required materials or labor. Range is one
the key differentiators for Nordhavn, Dave Abbot (www.maxingout.com)
spent 11 years circumnavigating on a sailing cat, which he calls the
perfect motorsailer. So you might consider a sailing cat and think of
it as a trawler with sails as a range booster for long passages. One
of the secrets of long range sailors is that they motor an awful lot.
Mark
Marina del Rey, CA
----- Original Message ----
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Sent: Fri, September 25, 2009 2:55:52 PM
Subject: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Subject: equivalent
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Message: 3
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:08:15 -0400
From: Georgs Kolesnikovs gxk@earthlink.net
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID: 98C6D813-44F7-4996-B512-A88C68FE53DC@earthlink.net
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters is
that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos, completing a
circumnavigation of the world this year:
http://kosmos.liveflux.net/blog/our-boat/
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price of
795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind Wind
IV
and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are larger, more
spacious yachts.
http://www.pachoud.co.nz/yachts/wild-wind-IV.asp
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater http://crosswatercats.com/ The economic downturn put it out
of my reach, but I still think it is the best all-around boat for the
$$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:07:47 -0500
From: WARD RINEHART wardrinehart@gmail.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
Message-ID:
<89521e560909260807u6891e4a8o8c150fbdfee77750@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Try Endeavourcats in Clearwater Florida. They build a high quality boat
but
with les fancy trim. Their 44 and their 48 are truely excellent boats.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 8:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr.
bcarlson@erols.comwrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater http://crosswatercats.com/ The economic downturn put it out
of my reach, but I still think it is the best all-around boat for the
$$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
On Sep 25, 2009, at 7:43 PM, Mark wrote:
"equivalent" is different for different people. There are very few
production long range cats. The PDQ 41 would be similar in size, I
can't comment on quality, and certainly doesn't have the range. Most
of the cats from larger manufacturers are semi-planing or tweaks of
sailing designs, so won't have the range either, Lagoon 43/44,
Fountaine Pajot, Robertson/Caine, Alliaura (Privilege) Transcat.
Then there are the Aus/NZ boats, Prowler, Aventure, etc. The new
Maine Cat P-47 reportedly can do 3000nm+ if you stick to 7-8knots, they
have a reputation for high quality, is probably much
bigger then the N43. It's new, so there is much unknown. There are a
few
long range Malcolm Tenant designs out there, but I believe they are
all custom and much larger. Depending on what you want, you might be
able to go custom for the price of a new N43, I'm thinking of Robert
Deering's recent launch. It's certainly not a LRC or plush Nordy,
but you can tweak the hull shape, engines, props, without
significantly changing the required materials or labor. Range is one
the key differentiators for Nordhavn, Dave Abbot (www.maxingout.com)
spent 11 years circumnavigating on a sailing cat, which he calls the
perfect motorsailer. So you might consider a sailing cat and think
of it as a trawler with sails as a range booster for long passages.
One of the secrets of long range sailors is that they motor an awful
lot.
Mark
Marina del Rey, CA
----- Original Message ----
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Sent: Fri, September 25, 2009 2:55:52 PM
Subject: [PCW] Fwd: equivalent
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
Date: Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 11:53 PM
Subject: equivalent
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
--
WM WARDEN RINEHART
CHICAGO, IL 60657
tel: 773-272-6212
Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 18:10:22 +0200
From: Christian Capelle ccapelle@gmail.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID:
<70891ca00909260910n7837309aub5564fc7c53a99b6@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
You are right Georgs, primarily I am planning to sail in the Caribbean sea
and south America, not necessary ocean crossing. Of course a Nordhavn 40
would also do. I really like the stability, living space, and low draft of
a
catamaran if any would come with quality and reliability of the Nordhavn.
best Regards
Christian
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Georgs Kolesnikovs
gxk@earthlink.netwrote:
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters
is that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos,
completing a circumnavigation of the world this year:
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price
of 795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind
Wind IV and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are
larger, more spacious yachts.
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater
The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but I still think it
is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to
a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Message: 6
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:43:18 -0500
From: WARD RINEHART wardrinehart@gmail.com
To: Power Catamaran List power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID:
<89521e560909260943o6f6627fen46c0054d69964118@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I recommend you consider Endeavour cats from Clearwater Florida. Good
boats. Not necessarily fancy trim, but good quality hulls and
construction. Great designs of the 44 and 48 for live aboard
possibilities. I have sea trialed the 48 and found her to move comfortably
and with stability. Good luck.
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Christian Capelle
ccapelle@gmail.comwrote:
You are right Georgs, primarily I am planning to sail in the Caribbean
sea
and south America, not necessary ocean crossing. Of course a Nordhavn 40
would also do. I really like the stability, living space, and low draft
of
a
catamaran if any would come with quality and reliability of the Nordhavn.
best Regards
Christian
On Sat, Sep 26, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Georgs Kolesnikovs <gxk@earthlink.net
wrote:
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters
is that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos,
completing a circumnavigation of the world this year:
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price
of 795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind
Wind IV and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are
larger, more spacious yachts.
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater
The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but I still think it
is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Ocean City MD
what would be a power catamaran equivalent in autonomy, quality,
comfort to
a Nordhavn 43 monohull.......
Thanks for your input.
Best Regards
Christian
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
--
WM WARDEN RINEHART
CHICAGO, IL 60657
tel: 773-272-6212
Message: 7
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:45:42 -1000
From: "Noelle Harrott" harrott@hawaii.rr.com
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Subject: Re: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd:
equivalent
Message-ID: 6A4A47265F854341A9EF7BABDFB0CAE7@noelle
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Well, here's another two cents worth of opinion on the equivalent topic...
Christian, you've stated that your primary cruising area will be in warm
latitudes which would eliminate one of the Nordhavn's prime attributes.
They are a "wild-weather" boat, great insulation,
heating and a protected pilothouse with good visibility. Their hullforms
are
designed for formidable seakeeping. In an awful sea-state I would probably
feel most secure (and comfortable) in a Nordhavn than in a similarly sized
Powercat. The displacement difference of the two designs probably accounts
for much of that difference.
If size and cost should be equivalent as well as rang and speed then I
must
agree with Mark that sailing cats are worth a look.
The Gunboat 48 is unique in that it has a fabulous inside steering station
as well as a forward cockpit. If sailing is not out of the question then
the
Gunboat offers speeds around twice that of the smaller Nordhavns. Motoring
speeds should also exceed that of the monohull.By adding a backup
watermaker
and converting the watertanks to fuel,
motoring range becomes very useful. The sailing capabilities only add to
the safety at sea
The build quality of these boats is very high and the space advantages will
add to boating enjoyment.
I'm sure that Rod Gibbons could weigh in with some valuable insights on the
topic.
Thank you for posing such a stimulating question on this list which has
been
rather dormant of late.
Regards, Bert Harrott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Georgs Kolesnikovs" gxk@earthlink.net
To: "Power Catamaran List" power-catamaran@lists.samurai.com
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 4:08 AM
Subject: [PCW] Power catamarans vs Nordhavn 43, was Re: Fwd: equivalent
Bill and others--
The big difference between the Nordhavn 43 and any of the Crosswaters
is that the N43 is a proven passagemaker with Hull #18, Kosmos,
completing a circumnavigation of the world this year:
Incidentally, the well-equipped Kosmos is for sale at an asking price
of 795,000 USD.
I suspect any of the few proven powercat passagemakers, such as Wind
Wind IV and Chrysalis, cost a lot more than that. Of course, they are
larger, more spacious yachts.
Notice my use of the word "proven." It's one thing to be a designer or
builder and claim your boat will cross an ocean. Actually doing so is
another thing altogether.
But perhaps Christian, when he started this thread, did not mean ocean-
crossing equivalents of the Nordhavn 43.
--Georgs
PS I modified the subject line so that it would be easier to find this
discussion.
On 26-Sep-09, at 9:05 AM, Bill Carlson, Sr. wrote:
For less than the cost of an N43, have Felix Herrin build you a
Crosswater
The economic downturn put it out of my reach, but I still think it
is the best all-around boat for the $$.
Bill Carlson
Power-Catamaran Mailing List
Only if you're planning to cruise in sheltered waters. Why? My take on
Carri-Craft is that it's essentially a houseboat on a catamaran
platform.
--Georgs
Any comments on this gem?
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1993/Carri-Craft-Diesel-Catamaran-2022924/Gibsonton/FL/United-States
Cheers to all,
Ed