TWL: Good News and Bad News
From California:
The good news is that the move to do away with the "90 day in Mexico" sales
tax exemption for RVs and boats has been defeated (for now.) Proposed by a
Democratic party state congressman from L.A., (I'm shocked!), that, if passed,
would have made the off-shore delivery of boats invalid.
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
It cannot applied over any existing bottom paint, has no predicted life span
and the bottom must be cleaned twice a month by a diver, unless you can bring
your hull up to a speed of twenty knots, where the hull will clean itself(?).
The paint depends upon slickness to keep the uglies off the hull.
Even Dave Barry couldn't top this one.
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
It cannot applied over any existing bottom paint, has no predicted life span
and the bottom must be cleaned twice a month by a diver, unless you can bring
your hull up to a speed of twenty knots, where the hull will clean itself(?).
The paint depends upon slickness to keep the uglies off the hull.
Even Dave Barry couldn't top this one.
Not to offend anyone, but California has been the most "whacked out" state
in the union for years, which is one reason I left there many years
ago. Let's just say I found it a bit too liberal for my blood. Now to the
"latest and greatest" bottom paint you described, don't tell me, they have
or intend to make it mandatory?
Jim Alexander, Realtor
Vista 43
Port Charlotte, FL
Not to offend the rest of you who are convinced Calif. is "wacko". BUT! It has been CA who
has pulled the rest of the US along for over 150 years. We are THE financial powerhouse of
the entire country, we have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the country put
together. We set world standards in the design of everything from rockets to furniture.
Almost all of the media is shaped and based on CA trends. We have been the most progressive
state in almost every field. We are populated by original true thinkers who are not
constrained by artificial and self imposed limitations. In short, much of the wealth,
health, technology and freedom that the entire country enjoys have been provided or promoted
by CA. We are leaders, not followers.
Jim Alexander wrote:
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
It cannot applied over any existing bottom paint, has no predicted life span
and the bottom must be cleaned twice a month by a diver, unless you can bring
your hull up to a speed of twenty knots, where the hull will clean itself(?).
The paint depends upon slickness to keep the uglies off the hull.
Even Dave Barry couldn't top this one.
Not to offend anyone, but California has been the most "whacked out" state
in the union for years, which is one reason I left there many years
ago. Let's just say I found it a bit too liberal for my blood. Now to the
"latest and greatest" bottom paint you described, don't tell me, they have
or intend to make it mandatory?
Jim Alexander, Realtor
Vista 43
Port Charlotte, FL
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Not to offend the rest of you who are convinced Calif. is "wacko". BUT! It
has been CA who
has pulled the rest of the US along for over 150 years. We are THE
financial powerhouse of
the entire country, we have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the
country put
together. We set world standards in the design of everything from rockets
to furniture.
Hello All,
Disclaimer: Most of you probably don't want to read this. Against my
better judgment I'm going to rebut Richards post. While not technically a
list issue, things are spinning so completely out of control in California
that soon the state will transform itself into a place to be avoided at all
costs, especially by boaters and a healthy subset of our own group, live
aboards.
Essentially, we don't lead the country in anything worth crowing about
anymore. I've been here for 23 years now and watched the changes. State
government is spending itself to death and no amount of tax increase that
stands a chance of passing will put the state back on track. We're not
talking about wiping the deficit here; the issue is one of bringing in
revenue sufficient to provide more service to the citizenry than simple
entitlement programs, schools, prisons and highways. That group accounts
for over 80% of the state budget.
While the needs of boaters and their drain on state economies are small, in
CA they are no longer sustainable and now have to "pay" for themselves with
various use fees. If they cannot offset or eliminate their cost burden on
the state budget they will be cut. In most cases, they've already been cut.
Infrastructure, especially non-essential infrastructure such as municipal
marinas and other support facilities for boaters are drying up or being
privatized at a breakneck rate. Only the wealthiest municipalities provide
services for boaters, most run under the auspices of the local parks and
recreation departments. State parks and national forest facilities are both
strapped for funding and, again, defer costs through fees or fee increases.
Right now you can't even walk into the Tahoe National park at Tahoe City
without paying a $2.00 fee per person. This fee structure is already
proposed for institution statewide later this year. That's Bull.
Liveaboards are particularly burdened by our state policies. Most marinas
no longer permit living aboard and those that do are mandated to provide no
more than 10% of slips to live aboards. We've coined our own new term,
sneak-aboards, for those that are forced to skirt the regs while they cast
about for a reasonably economical place to live on their boat. The putative
reason set forth by the state is environmental protection. Sure, you bet.
Living aboard is one of the last great ways to own your home and avoid
property taxes, something the state is dead set against. Even if you're
living in an apartment that means there is one more unit the owner can build
and pay property taxes on. Expect to see live aboards further restricted
over the next 5 years. For you unfortunates living in Washington, the
situation is even worse, and you have California to blame since we're
apparently the model for west coast cash starved tree hugging state
governments, Oregon excepted.
We led the country in the late 60', 70's and perhaps into the early 80's,
the latest leadership burst fueled by the computer revolution. There is no
arguing that point. Unfortunately, that was 20 years ago and things
changed. Where are our Nobel Prize winners, industry leaders and policy
makers today? Looks to me like they all packed up their stuff and headed
either to Washington or back east. Right now we don't lead in any
categories except bankruptcies and legislation. At the current pace, all
behavior in California will soon be legislated to the point of being defined
as either illegal or mandatory. If I were king the first thing I'd do is
amend the state constitution so that lawmakers were forced to rescind 10% of
the state laws and from that point forward could not pass a new law unless
they took one off the books. Probably not a bad idea for the country
either.
My point is simple. We can't continue the way we're going. Most of our
money goes to education, entitlement programs and prisons. If you don't
believe me do a Google search on the 2003 CA state budget. There is
precious little left to support the "California Dream", especially for
boaters and other narrow interest groups that take advantage of state
services. We're soon going to become another revenue opportunity for the
state once they figure out that they could be getting a nice share of the
excess money they think we have. Look for surcharges on simple services
like pump outs "waste disposal mitigation fees", special oil disposal
charges "Bulk User Fees" and other thinly veiled methods of extorting our
money for purposes of redistribution to whomever the needy flavor of the day
is.
Are we progressive? No way. The state is mostly funded by residential
growth, not business growth. Most state income streams are generated by
income taxes and "fees" (there are a lot of those). Corporate tax revenues
are less than 1/3 of personal income tax and fee revenues, a very, very
frightening imbalance. The political climate is poor. The state has become
at once both unbelievably liberal AND conservative. We are polarized at
every level and consequently state government spurs little or no progress.
We spend enormous amounts of our time and energy on frivolous issues, think
nothing of passing regulations that drive an ever increasing number of
employers and more significantly, skilled employees out of the state and
constantly bleat about how the fed's aren't sending us our share. Add to
that our Governor who, unfettered by intelligence or ethics, spent us into
oblivion while boldly staying focused on building his reelection campaign
chest. That isn't leadership to me.
The state desperately needs to find it's way again. We have the most
beautiful and diverse state I've ever seen and I've worked and played in all
50. I desperately want to join the ranks of trawler owners because there is
so much to see here from the water and most of the 30 million people are on
the land, thank God. Soon I probably will be able to afford the boat but am
concerned the state itself will increase the cost and regulatory burden of
boating (beyond ownership) so much that living and playing on the water here
will be beyond our reach or pain threshold.
For my part we've had it. We have a 3 year plan to move back to FL where I
was born, build a house in Port Charlotte and hang out with the local TWL
Listees (if they'll have us). Living here has finally exceeded my pain
threshold and that's a shame. CA is awe inspiring and magnificent and we
haven't seen half of it yet. Too bad...
Best Regards to All (especially those with stamina enough to read my entire
rant),
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Kumferman
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 9:29 PM
To: Jim Alexander
Cc: TWL; ralph
Subject: Re: TWL: Good News and Bad News
Holly Cow, Looks like we're doomed! If one checks any of the current figures,
you will find all of my statements 100% true. Is it perfect? No. Is it better
than somewhere else? In many ways, yes. Much better. Cleaner water, cleaner
autos, cleaner food. Superb heathcare, state or the art technology leaders,
inventive, creative and if it was a country, CA would be the 5th richest in the
world. No other state is in the top 50! One can see the glass half empty or half
full. I have had only great experiences boating in CA. Many states have or will
restrict liveaboards, due to many reasons. CA does not have a lock on that.
When you are looking around for problems, you will always find some. When you
seek answers, true knowledge is found. History is full of naysayers and gloom
and doom visionaries. All have been proven wrong. Lighten up!
Richard
"Service@CFX Marine.Com" wrote:
Not to offend the rest of you who are convinced Calif. is "wacko". BUT! It
has been CA who
has pulled the rest of the US along for over 150 years. We are THE
financial powerhouse of
the entire country, we have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the
country put
together. We set world standards in the design of everything from rockets
to furniture.
Hello All,
Disclaimer: Most of you probably don't want to read this. Against my
better judgment I'm going to rebut Richards post. While not technically a
list issue, things are spinning so completely out of control in California
that soon the state will transform itself into a place to be avoided at all
costs, especially by boaters and a healthy subset of our own group, live
aboards.
Essentially, we don't lead the country in anything worth crowing about
anymore. I've been here for 23 years now and watched the changes. State
government is spending itself to death and no amount of tax increase that
stands a chance of passing will put the state back on track. We're not
talking about wiping the deficit here; the issue is one of bringing in
revenue sufficient to provide more service to the citizenry than simple
entitlement programs, schools, prisons and highways. That group accounts
for over 80% of the state budget.
While the needs of boaters and their drain on state economies are small, in
CA they are no longer sustainable and now have to "pay" for themselves with
various use fees. If they cannot offset or eliminate their cost burden on
the state budget they will be cut. In most cases, they've already been cut.
Infrastructure, especially non-essential infrastructure such as municipal
marinas and other support facilities for boaters are drying up or being
privatized at a breakneck rate. Only the wealthiest municipalities provide
services for boaters, most run under the auspices of the local parks and
recreation departments. State parks and national forest facilities are both
strapped for funding and, again, defer costs through fees or fee increases.
Right now you can't even walk into the Tahoe National park at Tahoe City
without paying a $2.00 fee per person. This fee structure is already
proposed for institution statewide later this year. That's Bull.
Liveaboards are particularly burdened by our state policies. Most marinas
no longer permit living aboard and those that do are mandated to provide no
more than 10% of slips to live aboards. We've coined our own new term,
sneak-aboards, for those that are forced to skirt the regs while they cast
about for a reasonably economical place to live on their boat. The putative
reason set forth by the state is environmental protection. Sure, you bet.
Living aboard is one of the last great ways to own your home and avoid
property taxes, something the state is dead set against. Even if you're
living in an apartment that means there is one more unit the owner can build
and pay property taxes on. Expect to see live aboards further restricted
over the next 5 years. For you unfortunates living in Washington, the
situation is even worse, and you have California to blame since we're
apparently the model for west coast cash starved tree hugging state
governments, Oregon excepted.
We led the country in the late 60', 70's and perhaps into the early 80's,
the latest leadership burst fueled by the computer revolution. There is no
arguing that point. Unfortunately, that was 20 years ago and things
changed. Where are our Nobel Prize winners, industry leaders and policy
makers today? Looks to me like they all packed up their stuff and headed
either to Washington or back east. Right now we don't lead in any
categories except bankruptcies and legislation. At the current pace, all
behavior in California will soon be legislated to the point of being defined
as either illegal or mandatory. If I were king the first thing I'd do is
amend the state constitution so that lawmakers were forced to rescind 10% of
the state laws and from that point forward could not pass a new law unless
they took one off the books. Probably not a bad idea for the country
either.
My point is simple. We can't continue the way we're going. Most of our
money goes to education, entitlement programs and prisons. If you don't
believe me do a Google search on the 2003 CA state budget. There is
precious little left to support the "California Dream", especially for
boaters and other narrow interest groups that take advantage of state
services. We're soon going to become another revenue opportunity for the
state once they figure out that they could be getting a nice share of the
excess money they think we have. Look for surcharges on simple services
like pump outs "waste disposal mitigation fees", special oil disposal
charges "Bulk User Fees" and other thinly veiled methods of extorting our
money for purposes of redistribution to whomever the needy flavor of the day
is.
Are we progressive? No way. The state is mostly funded by residential
growth, not business growth. Most state income streams are generated by
income taxes and "fees" (there are a lot of those). Corporate tax revenues
are less than 1/3 of personal income tax and fee revenues, a very, very
frightening imbalance. The political climate is poor. The state has become
at once both unbelievably liberal AND conservative. We are polarized at
every level and consequently state government spurs little or no progress.
We spend enormous amounts of our time and energy on frivolous issues, think
nothing of passing regulations that drive an ever increasing number of
employers and more significantly, skilled employees out of the state and
constantly bleat about how the fed's aren't sending us our share. Add to
that our Governor who, unfettered by intelligence or ethics, spent us into
oblivion while boldly staying focused on building his reelection campaign
chest. That isn't leadership to me.
The state desperately needs to find it's way again. We have the most
beautiful and diverse state I've ever seen and I've worked and played in all
50. I desperately want to join the ranks of trawler owners because there is
so much to see here from the water and most of the 30 million people are on
the land, thank God. Soon I probably will be able to afford the boat but am
concerned the state itself will increase the cost and regulatory burden of
boating (beyond ownership) so much that living and playing on the water here
will be beyond our reach or pain threshold.
For my part we've had it. We have a 3 year plan to move back to FL where I
was born, build a house in Port Charlotte and hang out with the local TWL
Listees (if they'll have us). Living here has finally exceeded my pain
threshold and that's a shame. CA is awe inspiring and magnificent and we
haven't seen half of it yet. Too bad...
Best Regards to All (especially those with stamina enough to read my entire
rant),
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of Richard
Kumferman
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 9:29 PM
To: Jim Alexander
Cc: TWL; ralph
Subject: Re: TWL: Good News and Bad News
Hi Richard
Holy Cow, you read it all! There must be some list that shows we
Californians lead in stamina.
I don't want you to think I'm against your position. It just strikes a
sensitive chord with me. Claudette and I both serve local government
advisory boards in non-elected capacities. I'm also an Honorary Chairperson
of the Republican National Business Advisory Council (They sent me a gavel).
Claudette teaches high school and serves on the union board and negotiating
committee (She didn't get a gavel; so men still rule). We try to keep
positive attitudes, stay involved and help make things better but we're just
burned out. I don't believe we're focused on the negative but rather
believe there are realities that aren't being faced and our chance to stave
off fiscal disaster is rapidly slipping away.
Things were great once, that is true. I just don't think we're headed in
the right direction anymore, especially where services and facilities to
groups such as boaters are concerned. We are a very big boating state with
a strong percentage of boat owners among the general population. It is also
not just a pleasure of the rich; boating is do-able for those of limited
means as well. Quality of life is meaningful and I believe boating offers a
quality of life return that is greater than it's financial investment. I
hate to see the states grab for money take that pleasure out of the hands of
an increasing number of individuals.
I don't even think this is a partisan issue; State Reps and Dems share the
blame equally by concentrating their efforts against each others ideologies,
rather than on the good of the people and there aren't yet any alternative
parties with a tenable position or support base.
Remember, CA is a very big state and has a tremendous population. There are
also very substantial legacy industries, principally agriculture and timber,
which give us a big recurring private industry gross revenue edge in
sparsely populated areas without generating meaningful annual increases in
state revenue based on net income taxation. The true measures of state
financial progresses are per-capita metrics and we slipped astonishingly far
down those lists. Actually, we were number 1 or 2 per-capita in most
individual earnings categories throughout the 1970's. Now we're down
somewhere around 8th on average. That is a pretty steep drop and is
surprisingly not worthy of either media attention or legislative panic.
I'm jealous of your great experiences boating in CA and hope we're meeting
on the water sooner rather than later. Name your poison, Claudette and I
will bring some along and we'll raft up and debate (perhaps while pretending
to fish)! Elverta is actually in the Sacramento region and we'll begin our
trawlering lifestyle by boating on the delta and SF bay.
Later Dude! <--Mandatory California Salutation per CRC Section
144.44.9909.44
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Kumferman [mailto:rpkesq@earthlink.net]
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 11:42 PM
To: Service@CFX Marine.Com
Cc: Trawler-World-List
Subject: Re: TWL: Good News and Bad News
<snip>
That's Veridian... it's a silicone/Teflon stuff that has to be
professionally applied. I think it works out to about $100/ft.
Keith
__
BACHELOR: A man who never makes the same mistake once.
----- Original Message -----
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom
paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
I have to comment on California's "contributions" to the rest of the
country. While much of what Richard claims is true, it was the people that
flocked to California because of the weather and opportunities in the 1940s,
1950s, 1960s, and 1970s that provided these accomplishments. Let us not
forget that California has the most population of all the states, so it is
expected that there would be proportionately more of everything. Being on
the ocean with beaches helps as does its seaports. Both the seaports and
the vast desert areas attracted the military, which serves to attract and
anchor defense related industries which attracts more industries and
services to serve them, etc.
Californians also enjoy a high rate of air and water pollution, congested
traffic, very high taxation, high cost of living, high crime rates, high
stress rates, high divorce rates and a low quality of life. They are also
leaders in the spread of socialism, high cost litigation, and big
government. They also have some of the worst and least effective
politicians and seem to be content with them.
It is interesting that there are so many Californians that can hardly wait
to cash in their chips and leave at their earliest opportunity to live
elsewhere that has a higher quality of life and lower costs of living. We
left in 1977 to live in Bend, Oregon and now on Whidbey Island in
Washington. From what we have witnessed during several trips back to
California, things have gotten much worse, not better. Every place we have
lived and visited since leaving there has many Californians that also left.
They all have many friends and family that wish to leave as well.
As for being true thinkers and being leaders, not followers, I believe that
they are mostly followers and conformists, with many being selfish and
belligerent, qualities some think necessary to get ahead of the pack in
California. Many people in other areas do not like Californians coming into
their peaceful, high quality of life areas because many bring their inflated
values with them and try to dominate with money and belligerence like they
did in California.
I think I have to agree with Jim, California is whacko, full of fruits and
nuts, and not a good place to live and raise a family.
That's the way it looks from here.
Richard Kumferman wrote:
Not to offend the rest of you who are convinced Calif. is "wacko". BUT! It
has been CA who
has pulled the rest of the US along for over 150 years. We are THE
financial powerhouse of
the entire country, we have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the
country put
together. We set world standards in the design of everything from rockets to
furniture.
Almost all of the media is shaped and based on CA trends. We have been the
most progressive
state in almost every field. We are populated by original true thinkers who
are not
constrained by artificial and self imposed limitations. In short, much of
the wealth,
health, technology and freedom that the entire country enjoys have been
provided or promoted
by CA. We are leaders, not followers.<<<
From: "Bob Lowe" boblowe.dreamer@verizon.net
Californians also enjoy a high rate of air and water pollution, congested
traffic, very high taxation, high cost of living, high crime rates, high
stress rates, high divorce rates and a low quality of life.
There was a so-called "slow-growth" movement in Colorado in the early 70s
that employed a bumper sticker that read "Let's not Cali-fornicate
Colorado". Of course, many areas are becoming saturated now. Most people
want to live where most people want to live.
JG
Hi All,
Here is where I chime in with my dumb newbie question of the month:
Does anyone suppose there is any increase in hull efficiency due to the
slippery bottom paint? Might the very high ~$100.00/ft cost be returned in
decreased fuel bills or do I just need to come in out of the sun??
Regards to All,
Frank & Claudette Weismantel
Elverta, CA
Boatless for a little while longer
-----Original Message-----
From: trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com
[mailto:trawler-world-list-bounces@lists.samurai.com]On Behalf Of Keith
Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 4:33 AM
To: TWL
Subject: TWL: Slick bottom coating
That's Veridian... it's a silicone/Teflon stuff that has to be
professionally applied. I think it works out to about $100/ft.
Keith
__
BACHELOR: A man who never makes the same mistake once.
----- Original Message -----
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom
paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
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The latter. The average pleasure boat user is lucky to put 50 to 100 hours a
season (East Coast) on their boat. I am talking average because many Trawler
List members are not average nor is their boat utilization average. Further,
most are not self-cleaning their hulls at 20 knots. So, you get the bottom
scrubbed by a diver every two weeks or so (per a previous email.) No, what's
going to happen is a lot of folks will forego the diver and end-up using
more fuel. I don't think anyone has estimated (on this list) how many years
the paint will last or if it is ablative. How often does the owner of a 35
foot boat want to pay $3500? The implication was that this stuff must be
applied professionally - just great.
Ron Rogers
Annapolis, MD
_/)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Service@CFX Marine.Com" service@cfxmarine.com
|
| Does anyone suppose there is any increase in hull efficiency due to the
| slippery bottom paint? Might the very high ~$100.00/ft cost be returned
in
| decreased fuel bills or do I just need to come in out of the sun??
I'm told you can still get the bottom paint that works in places like
Spanish Wells, or the Navy if you've got connections. I'm on my 3rd year
with Trinidad SR and it's about as close to the good stuff as you can
buy in the states.
As for the fish, I'm a subscriber to the "fillet and release" program...
Regards.....
Phil Rosch
Old Harbor Consulting
M/V "Curmudgeon" Marine Trader 44 TC
Currently Moored in Block Island, RI
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't
do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away
from
the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream.
Discover." - Mark Twain
-----Original Message-----
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
It cannot applied over any existing bottom paint, has no predicted life span
and the bottom must be cleaned twice a month by a diver, unless you can bring
your hull up to a speed of twenty knots, where the hull will clean itself(?).
The paint depends upon slickness to keep the uglies off the hull.
Even Dave Barry couldn't top this one.
REPLY
Based on the description alone, is there any difference in fouling
characteristics between this wonder product and just plain gelcoat highly
buffed and polished?
If not, then why not simply forget the bottom paint and wash & polish the boat
regularly?
Of course the increased pollution caused by the greater amount fuel burned to
maintain a speed of twenty knots is not being considered by the enviro
advocates.
So then next move will be to pass a law stating that you cannot use a boat
which has a fuel burn grater than x gallons per hour.
Actually, this is all terribly inefficient.
There is enough statistical evidence to support the position that people
invariably cause pollution.
Therefore ban people as the single most prevalent source of pollution.
This will serve two purposes, it will stop pollution and since it effectively
removes people from the state, it will also reduce the amount of tax dollars
required to maintain services.
Cheers
Arild
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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Re Arild's: "If not, then why not simply forget the bottom paint and wash &
polish the boat regularly?"
Which is essentially what happens if you have a diver scrape off the AF
paint every two weeks, he's soon working on a non-painted hull.
Bob Peterson
On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 06:33:05 -0500, "Keith" klemmons@airmail.net
wrote:
That's Veridian... it's a silicone/Teflon stuff that has to be
professionally applied. I think it works out to about $100/ft.
There is also VC-17 and VC- Offshore, both are bottom paints
favored in the sail boat racing community because they achieve a very
smooth finish when cleaned by a diver. See
http://www.yachtpaint.com/usa/general/US_teflon_products.asp?ComponentID=6779
&SourcePageID=6815.
It doesn't appear that professional application is required.
These paints might actually make a lot of sense for
dinghies/tenders that are not left in the water full time but may stay
in long enough to get some fouling growth. The growth would come off
more easily than from gelcoat but without the problems of other bottom
paints.
Ross Fleming ross@renoun.net
S/V Renown Gulfstar 39
Seattle, Washington http://renoun.net
Not true about the Nobel prizes (Massachusetts is first), world standards
(ASTM are in Washington DC), furniture?, rockets, try Ohio at Wright patt,
green laws I will give you that, media based on California trends - sad but
true.
California hasn't even been around for 150 years.
Is being an enviro-wacko a bad thing?
-John
At 12:28 AM 6/28/2003, Richard Kumferman wrote:
Not to offend the rest of you who are convinced Calif. is "wacko". BUT! It
has been CA who
has pulled the rest of the US along for over 150 years. We are THE
financial powerhouse of
the entire country, we have more Nobel Prize winners than the rest of the
country put
together. We set world standards in the design of everything from rockets
to furniture.
Almost all of the media is shaped and based on CA trends. We have been the
most progressive
state in almost every field. We are populated by original true thinkers
who are not
constrained by artificial and self imposed limitations. In short, much of
the wealth,
health, technology and freedom that the entire country enjoys have been
provided or promoted
by CA. We are leaders, not followers.
Jim Alexander wrote:
The bad news: the California enviro-wackos have come up with a bottom
paint
that is fish-friendly, i.e., containing no copper.
It cannot applied over any existing bottom paint, has no predicted
life span
and the bottom must be cleaned twice a month by a diver, unless you
can bring
your hull up to a speed of twenty knots, where the hull will clean
itself(?).
The paint depends upon slickness to keep the uglies off the hull.
Even Dave Barry couldn't top this one.
Not to offend anyone, but California has been the most "whacked out" state
in the union for years, which is one reason I left there many years
ago. Let's just say I found it a bit too liberal for my blood. Now to the
"latest and greatest" bottom paint you described, don't tell me, they have
or intend to make it mandatory?
Jim Alexander, Realtor
Vista 43
Port Charlotte, FL
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John W. Norton, Jr.
CEE/IOE Doctoral Student, University of Michigan
Office: (734) 936-3067
"Teaching and motivating the engineers of the future!"
Winner, Outstanding Student Instructor Award, 2002
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jnorton/
Your life is God's gift to you,
what you do with it is your gift to God.
---Unknown
At 02:42 AM 6/28/2003, Richard 'makin' up data' Kumferman wrote:
if it was a country, CA would be the 5th richest in the
world. No other state is in the top 50!
Not true either....
First number = GNP in billions, second is per capita in $K
USA 10533 38
Japan 4852 38
Germany 2242 27
Britain 1544 26
France 1543 26
China 1329 1
Italy 1260 22
California 1106 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< STATE!
New York 826
Texas 763 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Canada 760 24
Brazil 715 4
Spain 651 16
Mexico 578 6
South Korea 515 11
India 510 0.5
Florida 491 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Illinois 475 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Australia 444 24
Netherlands 429 27
Pennsylvania 408 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Ohio 373 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
New Jersey 365 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Taiwan 363 16
Michigan 320 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Argentina 300 8
Georgia 299 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Massachusetts 287 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Switzerland 286 39
North Carolina 275 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Sweden 275 31
Virginia 273 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Belgium 264 26
Russia 252 2
Austria 226 27
Washington 222 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Turkey 212 3
Maryland 195 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Indiana 189 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Minnesota 188 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Poland 188 5
Tennessee 182 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Missouri 181 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Wisconsin 177 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Indonesia 174 0.8
Colorado 173 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Connecticut 166 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Arizona 160 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Louisiana 148 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Thailand 132 2
Alabama 121 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Kentucky 120 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
Oregon 120 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
South Carolina 115 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<ANOTHER, Non-California State!
John W. Norton, Jr.
CEE/IOE Doctoral Student, University of Michigan
Office: (734) 936-3067
"Teaching and motivating the engineers of the future!"
Winner, Outstanding Student Instructor Award, 2002
http://www-personal.engin.umich.edu/~jnorton/