Teak deck refurb 2, re-post of 12/97 thread
Subject: Teak Deck Refurb
Sent: 12/10 10:53 PM
Received: 12/10 10:36 PM
From: Richard Shapiro, RShapiro@worldnet.att.net
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
My humble addition to a GREAT discussion - when you work with sealants
(particularly when you remove any taping) you do have a wonderful mess.
Boat Life polysulfides dissolve beautifully in WD40! I keep lot's around
anyway, but clean up my hands and my mistakes with it all the time. Does
not stain the teak either that I have seen.
Cap'n Rich
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Subject: Re: Teak Deck Refurb
Sent: 12/11 1:04 AM
Received: 12/11 11:45 AM
From: Brian J. Hall, bhall@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Captain Rich,
When I bought my boat, the former owner had a couple of
fellows from Mexico detailing it for me. They had WD40 in a
plastic soda bottle with a pinhole in the lid. They would wet
their finger with the WD and smooth the Thiokol. No pulling
or dragging -- just a beautiful molded seam! It also
worked well around the aluminum window frames.
Easy clean-up and a beautiful job. Of course, their
fingers probably fell off the next day:-)
Brian Hall
Old Bay Marina
Crawler CHB45' "Any Sea"
Baltimore
My humble addition to a GREAT discussion - when you work with sealants
(particularly when
you remove any taping) you do have a wonderful mess. Boat Life
polysulfides dissolve
beautifully in WD40! I keep lot's around anyway, but clean up my hands
and my mistakes
with it all the time. Does not stain the teak either that I have seen.
Cap'n Rich
Subject: Re: Teak Deck Refurb
Sent: 12/11 1:34 AM
Received: 12/11 11:45 AM
From: Bob Foss, bfoss@tri-lakes.net
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
' DeFever's teak decks are in need in a good re-caulk job. <snip>
Dear Randy:
We had our decks reseamed three years ago. We hired it done, but the
fellow who did the work used an old "flat" screwdriver ground to the
same width as the seams. He bent it to about a 30 degree angle, and
"scraped" out the old caulking material. (I've heard of people using a
Dremel tool with a small abrasive bit to do the same thing, with
success). You do have to be careful to try and keep the edge of the
seam perpendicular to the deck, and the "same" width, so it will look
uniform.
He used a two part caulk made by Detco, and used a primer they recommend
prior to the caulk insertion. One problem he had was the presence of
bubbles in the seam. (It's hard to not inject some air into the mixture
when you're combining the two ingredients. I believe he mixed it with a
portable drill mounted mixer, on slow speed, available for mixing
paint). He only mixed up a small amount of it at a time (because of the
limited "pot life") and had a helper go along the seams with a small
nail "popping" the air bubbles.
He put a liberal amount of caulk in the seam, and let it set up. When
it was all done he lighlty sanded entire deck, and it looks very
uniform.
As for the bungs, he took a drill bit about two-thirds the size of the
bung, and carefully drilled down slowly down the middle. Most of the
time the bung would "disintegrate" to the point where the rest of it
would come out easily.
It's defintely not a job for the faint of heart, and you need to be
prepared to get "dirty". However, our decks look great, and have (so
far) held up very well.
Good luck, and let us know how it turns out.
Bob Foss
bfoss@tri-lakes.net
Subject: Re: Re: Teak Deck Refurb
Sent: 12/11 3:37 AM
Received: 12/11 11:45 AM
From: Al Johnson, AlorMaria@aol.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Bryant,
Don't you dare take this thread off line. Everybody here has a teak deck
(or
wishes they did). I just spent a month working on my deck and I'd like to
know
if I did it right. There is nothing written in a clear detailed step by
step
manner about teak deck refurbishing. One lady has a pretty picture book
and
that french guy writes hairy chested stories and makes nice calendars but
they
always shy away when it comes to the nitty gritty. When you have to look
to
Farley Mowat for technical analysis you are in deep trouble.
I can't wait to hear how to get the bung glue out of a screw hole. Any
thoughts on how to get the heads and shafts of broken brass wood screws
up out
of a fiberglass underdeck without buggering up the bung hole? I just did
it
over 100 times and while I'm pleased with the results there has got to be
a
better way.
Al Johnson
34' Marine Trader "Angelina" The one with the pretty deck.
Subject: Re: Teak Deck Refurb
Sent: 12/11 10:55 AM
Received: 12/11 11:45 AM
From: Jim Wujciak, wujciak@hazeltine.gec.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Brian J. Hall wrote:
Captain Rich,
When I bought my boat, the former owner had a couple of
fellows from Mexico detailing it for me. They had WD40 in a
plastic soda bottle with a pinhole in the lid. They would wet
their finger with the WD and smooth the Thiokol. No pulling
or dragging -- just a beautiful molded seam! It also
worked well around the aluminum window frames.
[SNIP]
When replacing/reparing seams I use masking tape and a single edge razor
blade to smooth the caulking before it cures. This reduces if not
eliminates sanding to 'level' the seam with the wood.
Jim Wujciak
wujciak@systems.gec.com
36' MT Sedan
Hard To Get
Subject: Teak Decks
Sent: 12/11 9:42 PM
Received: 12/11 5:34 PM
From: Jim & Jean Yaeger, jjyaeger@worldnet.att.net
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To those discouraged by the extensive commments on maintaining teak
decks, be of good cheer! Here is my experience: Over the past three
years, I have replaced about a dozen plugs every six months on my 1984
Island Gypsy using quick-setting epoxy - It only takes about two hours,
and the decks look fine and do not leak.
Subject: Re: Re: Teak Deck Refurb
Sent: 12/11 10:42 PM
Received: 12/11 11:46 PM
From: Bryant Vann, vann@his.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Al,
I can't wait to hear how to get the bung glue out of a screw hole. Any
thoughts on how to get the heads and shafts of broken brass wood screws up out
of a fiberglass underdeck without buggering up the bung hole?
I just did it over 100 times and while I'm pleased with the results there has
got to be a better way.
Well, I'd love to hear how you proceeded. I think I covered how I've been
dealing with munged crosses on the SS screws in my deck. I've only run
across one brass/bronze screw (in a folding finger hold fitting).
Electrolysis had destroyed its strength and it broke off way down deep.
(I
have a feeling that brass/bronze screws don't last real well in teak
decks,
but I've been wrong before.... FWIW, our 11-year old SS screws are in
excellent shape (as far as electrolysis is concerned) when I take them
out.)
My dad was a dentist, so I treat things like that just like he did when
filling teeth! I get out my handy little Dremel tool (running off dock
power or an invertor if we're at anchor) and put a silicon carbide or
diamond (that's what he used -- he could drill out a filling without any
pain OR Novocaine-type stuff!) grinding point. If it's brass or bronze
you could probably get away with an HSS burr. Then I just use great
patience to work the point down on the metal down in the hole. Now, the
hole in the wood may get opened up a bit, so I epoxy a teak plug, whittled
down to fit, into the hole, and when it cures, I proceed as though I was
installing a new screw -- with an appropriate-size pilot hole.
Now, tell us YOUR tale!
- Bryant
PS. My apologies to anyone we've scared off with this discussion. Keep
in
mind it's a lot like sex -- a LOT easier to do well than to try to
describe
the procedure. (OK, but maybe not QUITE as much fun -- as sex, that
is...)
Subject: Horror Story (was teak deck refurb)
Sent: 12/11 11:22 PM
Received: 12/11 11:47 PM
From: Mark Luesse, mhluesse@erols.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
my $.02
Before starting a complete refinishing of your deck,
consider how much you really love your boat. If you've even
thought about selling it, do it now. Otherwise you'll need
a good set of knee pads and a palm sander.
I put about 200 hours into recaulking the deck of our
33' Albin. The worst part was removing the old caulk. I
found that cutting the edges with a carpet knife then
pulling the caulk out with a small straight blade
screwdriver with the end bent worked the best. This gets
the majority of caulk out, but you still need to clean the
inside edges of the grooves down to the teak. You will need
to apply a break tape to the bottom of the groove (another
serious pain in the ass) so that the caulking adheres only
to the sides. The reason for this is to allow the
expansions of the deck to be absorbed by the entire width of
the seam, otherwise the caulk will eventually peel from the
side of the seam where the edges of the planking meet.
The grooves will need to be cleaned with acetone and
primed immediately before caulking (the 3M primer says 1 -
24 hours after application). Be sure to use a good grade of
one part poly sulfite caulk such as 3M 101 or Sikaflex. Do
not attemp to use two part unless you have access to and
evacuation chamber to remove entrapped air.
Before starting to caulk, it is worth practicing how to
fill and smooth the caulk in the grooves and avoid air
entrapment. I found that using a 6" metal ruler with a
rounded end made just the right groove shape. I made one
pass to scoop up the excess and then made a finishing pass
in the other direction. The trick is to do it in one shot.
The more you work it, the worse it gets. Don't worry about
the excess or cleaning it off the teak, attempting to do so
without messing up the grooves would require the patience of
a monk. Once it dried, I used a plasitc scaper to remove
the majority of excess and light sanding cleaned the rest.
I did all of my work under shrink wrap in the
winter/spring. If you want to do it in the summer you will
need to keep the boat covered since the decks likely provide
a water seal to your interior cabin space. The poly sulfite
can take from 1 to 3 weeks to cure enough to sand and finish
the deck (depending on temperature and humidity). Also,
wear a good respirator, particularly with the teak primer
and the poly
sulfite.
The Albin 33 with only the main deck in teak required 23
tubes of caulk. Half way through I discovered that the two
cases of 3M 101 I purchased were different. The tubes were
slightly different, but there were no indications of any
difference in the markings. However, the texture, viscosity
and curing properties were quite different. Fortunately the
difference in the finished deck is imperceptable.
Looking back on this job, I have to say that the decks
are now beautiful, BUT, I'd sooner pave them in concrete
than go though this refinishing job again. Unless you like
back wrenching tedium and strong chemicals, it won't be a
lot of fun!
my boating horror story
mark luesse
Ein Prosit
(Winterized) On the Chesapeake
Subject: re: caulking decks
Sent: 12/12 12:15 PM
Received: 12/12 12:51 PM
From: Anne Morris, PTWG14A@prodigy.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
-- [ From: Anne * EMC.Ver #2.5.3 ] --
Polysulfide deck caulks clean up with mineral spirits while uncured, and
can be smoothed with water to which a little dishwashing detergent has
been added. The tip about WD-40 is new to me!
We prefer to use 3M's 101 caulk. It has lasted much better than
BoatLife's Life Caulk in our experience. I agree with the list member
who warned us off of using the 2-part caulk except in precisely the
right (perfectly level) circumstances! The 2-part uses a wet catalyst
and cures much faster, which makes sense for boatbuilders, on land and
not afloat. But you can see from the detailed technical specifications
you can get from BoatLife, for example, that the 1-part and 2-part
formulations of their product are "chemically identical" when cured,
differing only in using dry-vs.-wet catalysts. When moisture reaches
the 1-part, the dry catalyst is activated, giving you a gradual cure...
Once the caulk is somewhat firm, if I need to hurry it a bit, I'll
sprinkle it lightly with water in a few days to accelerate the cure. Or
hope for rain (not the frozen stuff).
Anne Morris
Grand Banks 32 (yeah, with teak decks!) Veteran of Cheoy Lee ketch
maintenance...
Subject: Re: Teak Decks
Sent: 12/12 10:21 PM
Received: 12/12 10:54 PM
From: Jack Haring, Jack@Haring.ORG
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
At 01:53 PM 12/12/97 -0800, you wrote:
Jack Haring
A steel vessel with non-slip mixed in the deck paint is sounding better and
better all the time! ;-}
Woe betide those who put teak decking onto a metal sub-deck. No end of
trouble in the long run. And no cure except replacement of all the
components--even the metal sub-deck.
AMEN! If you want to read all about it, check the Queen Mary site at
http://www.queenmary.org/newdecks.html
Jack Haring E-mail: Whoopee@Haring.ORG
Whoopee Cottage
Useppa Island, FL
Subject: To teak or not to teak (decks)
Sent: 12/13 10:04 AM
Received: 12/13 8:43 AM
From: Mark Miles, mdmiles@ptialaska.net
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
I am new to this list server, but I see there is much discussion about
teak decks.
The following has probably been well covered in the past, but if anyone
could offer insights, I would appreciate it.
I have a Tradewinds 33 (same as the older Albin 33) Tri-cabin with
(expletive) teak decks. She and I reside in Juneau, AK, rain country,
and I am constantly chasing deck leaks, have worn out my knees and many
tubes of Life-caulk and 3M, and am seriously considering pulling it up
and glassing the deck. Has anyone done this? Were the results, if not
eye pleasing, at least livable? How many man-hours to pull the teak?
Suggestions for glassing, how to deal with deck fills and other deck
hardware, non-skid materials, etc??
Mark Miles
Subject: Re: To teak or not to teak (decks)
Sent: 12/13 12:43 PM
Received: 12/13 8:43 AM
From: Bryant Vann, vann@his.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Mark,
I have a Tradewinds 33 (same as the older Albin 33) Tri-cabin with (expletive)
teak decks. She and I reside in Juneau, AK, rain country, and I am constantly
chasing deck leaks, have worn out my knees and many tubes of Life-caulk
and 3M,
and am seriously considering pulling it up and glassing the deck. Has anyone
done this? Were the results, if not eye pleasing, at least livable? How many
man-hours to pull the teak? Suggestions for glassing, how to deal with deck
fills and other deck hardware, non-skid materials, etc??
You might want to check out an article that Crusing World ran on the
subject back in the summer. It's in the July 1997 issue, pp. 30 - 35.
The
boat was a Pan Oceanis 46-foot cutter (a sailboat for those who live in
Rio
Linda) had 272 sq. ft. of teak decking that was removed, and the
fiberglass
deck beneath was refinished with a sand-type non-skid. The owners did
some
of the work themselves (mostly removing fittings and the teak planking,
which took them 2 weeks) and had a professional do the rest. Which was
what is detailed in the article. Total cost was reported to be $5,000,
which included 200 hours of the pro's labor, spread over 6 weeks (vs. the
original estimate of 3 weeks).
HOWEVER, what is described was a cosmetic job (and a rather nice one at
that, juding from the "after" photos). They didn't mention how they
insured that the deck core was sound before re-finishing the surface. If
the coring has deteriorated from the water intrusion, the job becomes MUCH
larger. OBVIOUS signs are sponginess of the deck when you walk on it
(even
before removing the planking). After the planking is removed, I would
think a surveyor's "moisture meter" could be used to identify wet spots in
the coring. I should think in those places one should consider removing
the upper fiberglass surface and repairing the core beneath before
re-finishing the surface. The other problem I had with the article was
the
cost reported. It sounds like the "pro" worked for <$25 an hour. That
may
be OK in FL, where the boat calls home, but in other parts of the country,
that could run from a little to a LOT higher.
- Bryant Vann
M/V Salty Lady, Krogen 42
Galesville, MD --> on the Chesapeake Bay
PS. I have "heard" reports of decks that do not have cored construction,
but rather a just a plywood "subflooring," sort of like you find in house
construction. That, too, might be mostly costly, since I would think
you'd
need to build an upper skin of fiberglass on top of the plywood.
PPS. As I re-read the article this morning, I noted that they used a
brace
and bit to remove some of the stubborn #8 Philips head screws. I'm
DEFINITELY going to add one of those to my tool kit!
PPPS. I'd like to put in a plug for Cruising World magazine here (for
anyone who might not have discovered it when they were sailors). Although
it focusses almost exclusively on sailboats, I've found that the 95% of
the
articles are as relevant to trawlers as to sailboats. After all, the only
difference REALLY is that they have the extra method of propulsion as a
backup. Most cruising sailors that I meet in coastal areas use their
engines almost as much as we do -- MORE, if they don't have a separate
Genset for charging batteries/cooling the brews at anchor.
Subject: Re: Teak Decks
Sent: 12/13 5:10 PM
Received: 12/13 2:28 PM
From: Burkhard Becker, becker@presse.de
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Dear Michael,
which trouble do you expect in detail? I am very interested in this
question, because i intende to install a teak deck on my steel kotter.
Thanks for any information
Burkhard Becker
Subject: Re: Teak Decks
Sent: 12/13 6:06 PM
Received: 12/13 2:28 PM
From: Michael Kasten, redpath@olympus.net
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Burkhard Becker
Dear Michael,
which trouble do you expect in detail? I am very interested in this
question, because i intend to install a teak deck on my steel kotter.
Thanks for any information
Burkhard Becker
If using a steel deck, then a teak overlay, consider the following:
-
Don't use the teak. Instead use a non-skid material (fine sand)
sprinkled into the nex-to-the-last coat of paint. Lined off nicely to
provide a clear margin around stuff, this also looks very good and very
appropriate for a metal vessel. -
If using teak over a steel deck anyway, you must avoid all fasteners.
In other words, the steel is prepared by sandblasting, as usual, and
several coats of high build epoxy are applied, and then a "tie-coat."
Then, glue down the teak with either some sort of stuff like Sikaflex
or 3M5200. This stuff is as near permanent as can be found, and is also
flexible, allowing differential movement between the materials. Finally,
use Sikaflex or some such stuff as the seam compound.
The fasteners are the nemesis of anything you do on a metal boat. They
must be planned for as individuals, pre-drilled with a generous clearance
for paint, painted, carefully placed, and then some sort of magic spell
thrown on them.... or else.
Michael Kasten, Editor
Metal Boat Quarterly
Subject: Re: Teak Decks
Sent: 12/13 6:57 PM
Received: 12/13 2:28 PM
From: Wilbur C. Andrews, captnwil@coastalnet.com
Reply-To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
To: Trawler World List, trawler-world-list@samurai.com
Don't do it!
Burkhard Becker wrote:
Dear Michael,
which trouble do you expect in detail? I am very interested in this
question, because i intende to install a teak deck on my steel kotter.
Thanks for any information
Burkhard Becker