Empathy List Archives

BC

Bob Camp

Wed, May 8, 2013 8:50 PM

Hi

If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz,
it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into
it has an issue.

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:00 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question -- Oven Cycling

One of the things I hadn't adequately considered was how quickly / much
the oven cycling affects things. I wasn't really thinking about this
when tweaking the adjustment so I wasn't doing them at a consistent
point in the cycle.

Now, it looks like it may be cycling from a low of 10.000001 to a high
of 10.000017. I have watched this pattern repeat a number of times now.

I guess my goal for this device should be to get it to the point that it
cycles from about 9.999992 to about 10.000008, thus putting the center
point around 10 MHz.

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Hi If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz, it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into it has an issue. Bob -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Bray Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2013 2:00 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question -- Oven Cycling One of the things I hadn't adequately considered was how quickly / much the oven cycling affects things. I wasn't really thinking about this when tweaking the adjustment so I wasn't doing them at a consistent point in the cycle. Now, it looks like it may be cycling from a low of 10.000001 to a high of 10.000017. I have watched this pattern repeat a number of times now. I guess my goal for this device should be to get it to the point that it cycles from about 9.999992 to about 10.000008, thus putting the center point around 10 MHz. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

MD

Magnus Danielson

Wed, May 8, 2013 9:17 PM

On 05/08/2013 10:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz,
it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into
it has an issue.

... or as a remotely an issue a weak connection creating too much serial
resistance, some ovens doesn't handle that very well.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/08/2013 10:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz, > it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into > it has an issue. ... or as a remotely an issue a weak connection creating too much serial resistance, some ovens doesn't handle that very well. Cheers, Magnus

FB

Frederick Bray

Wed, May 8, 2013 11:05 PM

Thanks for the comments.

The 5110 has the ability to run on 12 volts DC and then the only
"processing" of the power is to derive 6 volts and a -7 bias. I am
going to try it on battery power and see if that makes any difference.
(I haven't touched the main supply yet, but I did rebuild the DC board
by replacing all the electrolytic capacitors and several resistors that
had increased in value well beyond any reasonable tolerance.) The
battery test should help to narrow things down.

Probably a more modern OCXO would be a useful improvement in any event.

Fred

On 5/8/2013 1:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz,
it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into
it has an issue.

Bob

Thanks for the comments. The 5110 has the ability to run on 12 volts DC and then the only "processing" of the power is to derive 6 volts and a -7 bias. I am going to try it on battery power and see if that makes any difference. (I haven't touched the main supply yet, but I did rebuild the DC board by replacing all the electrolytic capacitors and several resistors that had increased in value well beyond any reasonable tolerance.) The battery test should help to narrow things down. Probably a more modern OCXO would be a useful improvement in any event. Fred On 5/8/2013 1:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz, > it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into > it has an issue. > > Bob

BC

Bob Camp

Wed, May 8, 2013 11:52 PM

Hi

Clip a DVM on the power leads of the OCXO and see if the supply swings at the same rate as the frequency. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. If the problem is the supply, the swing will be obvious with >= 3 1/2 digits of resolution.

To be really sure, put a DVM in series with the oven supply lead and watch the current. That will also tell you if it's cycling due to an internal problem.

Bob

On May 8, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Frederick Bray fwbray@mminternet.com wrote:

Thanks for the comments.

The 5110 has the ability to run on 12 volts DC and then the only "processing" of the power is to derive 6 volts and a -7 bias. I am going to try it on battery power and see if that makes any difference. (I haven't touched the main supply yet, but I did rebuild the DC board by replacing all the electrolytic capacitors and several resistors that had increased in value well beyond any reasonable tolerance.) The battery test should help to narrow things down.

Probably a more modern OCXO would be a useful improvement in any event.

Fred

On 5/8/2013 1:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz,
it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into
it has an issue.

Bob

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Hi Clip a DVM on the power leads of the OCXO and see if the supply swings at the same rate as the frequency. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. If the problem is the supply, the swing will be obvious with >= 3 1/2 digits of resolution. To be *really* sure, put a DVM in series with the oven supply lead and watch the current. That will also tell you if it's cycling due to an internal problem. Bob On May 8, 2013, at 7:05 PM, Frederick Bray <fwbray@mminternet.com> wrote: > Thanks for the comments. > > > The 5110 has the ability to run on 12 volts DC and then the only "processing" of the power is to derive 6 volts and a -7 bias. I am going to try it on battery power and see if that makes any difference. (I haven't touched the main supply yet, but I did rebuild the DC board by replacing all the electrolytic capacitors and several resistors that had increased in value well beyond any reasonable tolerance.) The battery test should help to narrow things down. > > Probably a more modern OCXO would be a useful improvement in any event. > > Fred > > > > On 5/8/2013 1:50 PM, Bob Camp wrote: >> Hi >> >> If it's moving up and down from +1 to +17 Hz from 10 MHz relative to 10 MHz, >> it's broke. Either the OCXO it's self is in trouble or the supply going into >> it has an issue. >> >> Bob > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

MD

Magnus Danielson

Thu, May 9, 2013 11:00 AM

On 05/09/2013 01:52 AM, Bob Camp wrote:

Hi

Clip a DVM on the power leads of the OCXO and see if the supply swings at the same rate as the frequency. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. If the problem is the supply, the swing will be obvious with>= 3 1/2 digits of resolution.

To be really sure, put a DVM in series with the oven supply lead and watch the current. That will also tell you if it's cycling due to an internal problem.

I've seen ovens that had this issue, and it out of luck that I saw the
current fluctuate on power-up (as the HP supply had both voltage and
current reading) and then I hooked up a DMM in series and could see the
same fluctuation in the more fine-grained structure too. Turned out to
be a badly designed oven, or rather, the original design was good
enough, but then transferred to another product with new conditions, it
was no longer stable.

It can be good to understand what that "bump" comes from, it can be a
severe systematic flaw, but ADEV doesn't help you to understand what it is.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 05/09/2013 01:52 AM, Bob Camp wrote: > Hi > > Clip a DVM on the power leads of the OCXO and see if the supply swings at the same rate as the frequency. It doesn't have to be anything fancy. If the problem is the supply, the swing will be obvious with>= 3 1/2 digits of resolution. > > To be *really* sure, put a DVM in series with the oven supply lead and watch the current. That will also tell you if it's cycling due to an internal problem. I've seen ovens that had this issue, and it out of luck that I saw the current fluctuate on power-up (as the HP supply had both voltage and current reading) and then I hooked up a DMM in series and could see the same fluctuation in the more fine-grained structure too. Turned out to be a badly designed oven, or rather, the original design was good enough, but then transferred to another product with new conditions, it was no longer stable. It can be good to understand what that "bump" comes from, it can be a severe systematic flaw, but ADEV doesn't help you to understand what it is. Cheers, Magnus

FB

Frederick Bray

Sat, May 18, 2013 10:55 PM

Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have
recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder
joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even
without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the
re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO
with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project.

Fred

Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project. Fred

JL

J. L. Trantham

Sun, May 19, 2013 4:10 PM

Good to hear.

I love it when magic happens.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have
recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder
joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even
without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the
re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO
with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project.

Fred

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.

Good to hear. I love it when magic happens. Joe -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Bray Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project. Fred _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

FB

Frederick Bray

Sun, May 19, 2013 5:10 PM

Well, I also had some bad magic happen.

Last night, I decided that I would shutdown my HP 8935 so that I could
move it back to its usual place. When I turned it on this a.m. it
wouldn't power up. There is a known failure mode in the power supplies
of the 89XX series. I will probably just do an exchange for a re-built
supply.

It looks like I will have a new project for next weekend!

Fred

On 5/19/2013 9:10 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote:

Good to hear.

I love it when magic happens.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have
recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder
joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even
without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the
re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO
with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project.

Fred

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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and follow the instructions there.

Well, I also had some bad magic happen. Last night, I decided that I would shutdown my HP 8935 so that I could move it back to its usual place. When I turned it on this a.m. it wouldn't power up. There is a known failure mode in the power supplies of the 89XX series. I will probably just do an exchange for a re-built supply. It looks like I will have a new project for next weekend! Fred On 5/19/2013 9:10 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > Good to hear. > > I love it when magic happens. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Frederick Bray > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question > > > Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have > recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder > joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even > without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the > re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO > with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project. > > Fred > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

JL

J. L. Trantham

Sun, May 19, 2013 5:19 PM

It's nice to have something to do.

Sorry to hear of the 'bad' magic but, at least, it's not the same problem
all over again.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

Well, I also had some bad magic happen.

Last night, I decided that I would shutdown my HP 8935 so that I could
move it back to its usual place. When I turned it on this a.m. it
wouldn't power up. There is a known failure mode in the power supplies
of the 89XX series. I will probably just do an exchange for a re-built
supply.

It looks like I will have a new project for next weekend!

Fred

On 5/19/2013 9:10 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote:

Good to hear.

I love it when magic happens.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have
recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder
joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even
without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the
re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO
with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project.

Fred

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It's nice to have something to do. Sorry to hear of the 'bad' magic but, at least, it's not the same problem all over again. Joe -----Original Message----- From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Frederick Bray Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:11 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question Well, I also had some bad magic happen. Last night, I decided that I would shutdown my HP 8935 so that I could move it back to its usual place. When I turned it on this a.m. it wouldn't power up. There is a known failure mode in the power supplies of the 89XX series. I will probably just do an exchange for a re-built supply. It looks like I will have a new project for next weekend! Fred On 5/19/2013 9:10 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: > Good to hear. > > I love it when magic happens. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Frederick Bray > Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM > To: time-nuts@febo.com > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question > > > Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have > recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder > joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even > without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the > re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO > with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project. > > Fred > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.

AB

Azelio Boriani

Sun, May 19, 2013 11:02 PM

Usually this type of failure comes from the startup section of the
power supply. Try to locate the resistor and the electrolytic
capacitor of the driver IC. The resistor (in the 68K - 390K range)
connects the V+ bus to this low voltage capacitor and gives the
startup voltage.

On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, J. L. Trantham jltran@att.net wrote:

It's nice to have something to do.

Sorry to hear of the 'bad' magic but, at least, it's not the same problem
all over again.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:11 PM
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

Well, I also had some bad magic happen.

Last night, I decided that I would shutdown my HP 8935 so that I could
move it back to its usual place. When I turned it on this a.m. it
wouldn't power up. There is a known failure mode in the power supplies
of the 89XX series. I will probably just do an exchange for a re-built
supply.

It looks like I will have a new project for next weekend!

Fred

On 5/19/2013 9:10 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote:

Good to hear.

I love it when magic happens.

Joe

-----Original Message-----
From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On
Behalf Of Frederick Bray
Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question

Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have
recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder
joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even
without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the
re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO
with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project.

Fred

time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to
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and follow the instructions there.

Usually this type of failure comes from the startup section of the power supply. Try to locate the resistor and the electrolytic capacitor of the driver IC. The resistor (in the 68K - 390K range) connects the V+ bus to this low voltage capacitor and gives the startup voltage. On Sun, May 19, 2013 at 7:19 PM, J. L. Trantham <jltran@att.net> wrote: > It's nice to have something to do. > > Sorry to hear of the 'bad' magic but, at least, it's not the same problem > all over again. > > Joe > > -----Original Message----- > From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On > Behalf Of Frederick Bray > Sent: Sunday, May 19, 2013 12:11 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question > > Well, I also had some bad magic happen. > > Last night, I decided that I would shutdown my HP 8935 so that I could > move it back to its usual place. When I turned it on this a.m. it > wouldn't power up. There is a known failure mode in the power supplies > of the 89XX series. I will probably just do an exchange for a re-built > supply. > > It looks like I will have a new project for next weekend! > > Fred > > > On 5/19/2013 9:10 AM, J. L. Trantham wrote: >> Good to hear. >> >> I love it when magic happens. >> >> Joe >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On >> Behalf Of Frederick Bray >> Sent: Saturday, May 18, 2013 5:55 PM >> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] OCXO Adjustment Question >> >> >> Thanks to all the people who have commented, I believe that I have >> recovered the original Ovenaire OCXO. I re-flowed a bunch of solder >> joints on the PC board(s) and reassembled the oven with the foam. Even >> without the can over it, it is now stable. I plan to complete the >> re-assembly and leave it as it presently is after setting it to a GPSDO >> with a scope. I will save the MV89 for another project. >> >> Fred >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to >> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

time-nuts@lists.febo.com

gpsd 1pps pulse?