Empathy List Archives

RS

Rudy Sechez

Tue, Sep 17, 2019 10:58 AM

There have been reported incidents of dinghies being ticketed for running
at night with only an all-round white light, even though they are doing
less than 7 knots. Citing officers use Rule 23, stating that if the vessel
is capable to doing more than 7 knots, they are required side and white
lights. Keep in mind that Rule 23 applies only to International Rules, not
Inland Rules. All of the keys below Long Key are outside of the Demarcation
Lines, thus under International Rules.
Reading through "Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road, by Chris Llana
& George Wisneskey, two of the folks involved in the drafting of these
rules, they state that the rule revolves around the term "does not"-present
tense-and that potential for faster speeds does not apply.. This means that
the vessel's maximum speed during the time it is operating at night does
not exceed 7 knots. They specifically refute law enforcement attempts to
claim the opposite. I would think that this would provide anyone ticketed
substantive arguments if decided to challenge a ticket under these
circumstances.

RUDY & JILL SECHEZ
*BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler *
850-832-7748
Sanford FL
TRAWLER TRAINING and ANCHORING CONSULTANTS
ANCHORING-"A Ground Tackler's Apprentice"- E-Book or Hard Copy

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There have been reported incidents of dinghies being ticketed for running at night with only an all-round white light, even though they are doing less than 7 knots. Citing officers use Rule 23, stating that if the vessel is capable to doing more than 7 knots, they are required side and white lights. Keep in mind that Rule 23 applies only to International Rules, not Inland Rules. All of the keys below Long Key are outside of the Demarcation Lines, thus under International Rules. Reading through "Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road, by Chris Llana & George Wisneskey, two of the folks involved in the drafting of these rules, they state that the rule revolves around the term "does not"-present tense-and that potential for faster speeds does not apply.. This means that the vessel's maximum speed during the time it is operating at night does not exceed 7 knots. They specifically refute law enforcement attempts to claim the opposite. I would think that this would provide anyone ticketed substantive arguments if decided to challenge a ticket under these circumstances. *RUDY & JILL SECHEZ* *BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler * *850-832-7748* Sanford FL TRAWLER TRAINING and ANCHORING CONSULTANTS ANCHORING-"A Ground Tackler's Apprentice"- E-Book or Hard Copy <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

LC

Larry Cruzen

Tue, Sep 17, 2019 12:18 PM

Hi, Rudy. This reminds me of the gal who was running around at night doing less than two 7 knots in her dinghy with only a white anchor lite. When the officer threatened to ticket her because she had the potential to do more than 7 knots, she threatened to charge him with rape. Of course, he said he didn’t rape her. Her reply was that he certainly had the potential to.
Larry Cruzen

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 6:58 AM, Rudy Sechez via Trawlers-and-Trawlering trawlers@lists.trawlering.com wrote:

There have been reported incidents of dinghies being ticketed for running
at night with only an all-round white light, even though they are doing
less than 7 knots. Citing officers use Rule 23, stating that if the vessel
is capable to doing more than 7 knots, they are required side and white
lights. Keep in mind that Rule 23 applies only to International Rules, not
Inland Rules. All of the keys below Long Key are outside of the Demarcation
Lines, thus under International Rules.
Reading through "Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road, by Chris Llana
& George Wisneskey, two of the folks involved in the drafting of these
rules, they state that the rule revolves around the term "does not"-present
tense-and that potential for faster speeds does not apply.. This means that
the vessel's maximum speed during the time it is operating at night does
not exceed 7 knots. They specifically refute law enforcement attempts to
claim the opposite. I would think that this would provide anyone ticketed
substantive arguments if decided to challenge a ticket under these
circumstances.

RUDY & JILL SECHEZ
*BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler *
850-832-7748
Sanford FL
TRAWLER TRAINING and ANCHORING CONSULTANTS
ANCHORING-"A Ground Tackler's Apprentice"- E-Book or Hard Copy

http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
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www.avg.com
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Hi, Rudy. This reminds me of the gal who was running around at night doing less than two 7 knots in her dinghy with only a white anchor lite. When the officer threatened to ticket her because she had the potential to do more than 7 knots, she threatened to charge him with rape. Of course, he said he didn’t rape her. Her reply was that he certainly had the potential to. Larry Cruzen Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 6:58 AM, Rudy Sechez via Trawlers-and-Trawlering <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> wrote: There have been reported incidents of dinghies being ticketed for running at night with only an all-round white light, even though they are doing less than 7 knots. Citing officers use Rule 23, stating that if the vessel is capable to doing more than 7 knots, they are required side and white lights. Keep in mind that Rule 23 applies only to International Rules, not Inland Rules. All of the keys below Long Key are outside of the Demarcation Lines, thus under International Rules. Reading through "Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road, by Chris Llana & George Wisneskey, two of the folks involved in the drafting of these rules, they state that the rule revolves around the term "does not"-present tense-and that potential for faster speeds does not apply.. This means that the vessel's maximum speed during the time it is operating at night does not exceed 7 knots. They specifically refute law enforcement attempts to claim the opposite. I would think that this would provide anyone ticketed substantive arguments if decided to challenge a ticket under these circumstances. *RUDY & JILL SECHEZ* *BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler * *850-832-7748* Sanford FL TRAWLER TRAINING and ANCHORING CONSULTANTS ANCHORING-"A Ground Tackler's Apprentice"- E-Book or Hard Copy <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

TS

Thaddeus Sargent

Tue, Sep 17, 2019 12:36 PM

Here is the reg, the ambiguity is “shall (not is required to) and “if practicable”, a favored word of government rules. This is your base argument to those with flashing lights.

(ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 m in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad

On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 6:58 AM, Rudy Sechez via Trawlers-and-Trawlering trawlers@lists.trawlering.com wrote:

There have been reported incidents of dinghies being ticketed for running
at night with only an all-round white light, even though they are doing
less than 7 knots. Citing officers use Rule 23, stating that if the vessel
is capable to doing more than 7 knots, they are required side and white
lights. Keep in mind that Rule 23 applies only to International Rules, not
Inland Rules. All of the keys below Long Key are outside of the Demarcation
Lines, thus under International Rules.
Reading through "Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road, by Chris Llana
& George Wisneskey, two of the folks involved in the drafting of these
rules, they state that the rule revolves around the term "does not"-present
tense-and that potential for faster speeds does not apply.. This means that
the vessel's maximum speed during the time it is operating at night does
not exceed 7 knots. They specifically refute law enforcement attempts to
claim the opposite. I would think that this would provide anyone ticketed
substantive arguments if decided to challenge a ticket under these
circumstances.

RUDY & JILL SECHEZ
*BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler *
850-832-7748
Sanford FL
TRAWLER TRAINING and ANCHORING CONSULTANTS
ANCHORING-"A Ground Tackler's Apprentice"- E-Book or Hard Copy

http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
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Here is the reg, the ambiguity is “shall (not is required to) and “if practicable”, a favored word of government rules. This is your base argument to those with flashing lights. (ii) a power-driven vessel of less than 7 m in length whose maximum speed does not exceed 7 knots may in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule exhibit an all-round white light and shall, if practicable, also exhibit sidelights Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad On Tuesday, September 17, 2019, 6:58 AM, Rudy Sechez via Trawlers-and-Trawlering <trawlers@lists.trawlering.com> wrote: There have been reported incidents of dinghies being ticketed for running at night with only an all-round white light, even though they are doing less than 7 knots. Citing officers use Rule 23, stating that if the vessel is capable to doing more than 7 knots, they are required side and white lights. Keep in mind that Rule 23 applies only to International Rules, not Inland Rules. All of the keys below Long Key are outside of the Demarcation Lines, thus under International Rules. Reading through "Handbook of the Nautical Rules of the Road, by Chris Llana & George Wisneskey, two of the folks involved in the drafting of these rules, they state that the rule revolves around the term "does not"-present tense-and that potential for faster speeds does not apply.. This means that the vessel's maximum speed during the time it is operating at night does not exceed 7 knots. They specifically refute law enforcement attempts to claim the opposite. I would think that this would provide anyone ticketed substantive arguments if decided to challenge a ticket under these circumstances. *RUDY & JILL SECHEZ* *BRINEY BUG-a 34' Sail-Assisted Trawler * *850-832-7748* Sanford FL TRAWLER TRAINING and ANCHORING CONSULTANTS ANCHORING-"A Ground Tackler's Apprentice"- E-Book or Hard Copy <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> Virus-free. www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> _______________________________________________ http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com To unsubscribe or modify your subscription options (get password, change email address, etc) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/trawlers_lists.trawlering.com Trawlers & Trawlering and T&T are trademarks of Water World Productions. Unauthorized use is prohibited.

trawlers@lists.trawlering.com

Colregs Rule 23