To All -

Attached are the racing statistics from 2012 for our Cruising Fleet.

Some highlights:

There were 50 races scheduled, but only 28 races were completed (not
including HRYRA events).

Eighteen races were canceled due to no wind, or bad weather.

Four race days had good wind, but no Cruising Fleet boats showed up on the
starting line.

The A Division spinnaker boats raced only on Wednesdays. If they raced on
Sundays it was in the non-spinnaker divisions.

All races had a minimum of three boats on the starting line.

Fifteen boats raced on Sundays, 27 boats raced on Wednesdays. Four boats who
raced on Sundays did not race on Wednesdays.

Ten boats were listed in the spinnaker A Division, thus a DNC (Did not
Compete) = 11.

Fifteen boats were listed in the non-spinnaker C Division (PHRF < 187), thus
a DNC = 16.

Six boats were listed in the non-spinnaker D Division (PHRF > 187), thus a
DNC = 7.

Racing Frequency

As you can see from the data, the highest frequency of racing was in the D
Division (64%); the lowest frequency of racing was in the spinnaker A
Division (41%).

Only three boats attained 60% or greater frequency of racing.

The average frequency of racing was: A Division -  23.9%, C Division 30.0%,
D Division 45.8%.

Nine boats (out of 31) raced in less than 5 races. Those boats with the
smallest racing percentage were all in the spinnaker A Division because they
did not race on Sundays.

Lee's recommendations (for what it's worth)

1. Honor and use the U.S. Racing Rules of Sailing for scoring. 
   

2. Request all racers register by getting a PHRF before May 1st, and
   

announce the PHRF scoring divisions before the first race on May 5th.
(Suggestion: within the non-spinnaker group, three divisions might be
considered for smaller divisions to improve competition, not two.)

3. Require all scored racers to be paid members of the Cruising Fleet by
   

the time they start racing.

4. According to the NBC Sailing Instructions, three boats must race to
   

have a fleet start. (Less than three boats on the starting line must start
with the Open Fleet.) As in the past, if three boats race but only one
completes the course in the allotted time, all boats are scored. Likewise,
if only one boat completes the race course, that boat receives a score and
is not penalized because no other competitor shows up. In other words, while
you need three boats to have a starting gun from the race Committee, only
one boat needs to run the course for the race to count.

5. A boat should complete a minimum of 10% of the races scheduled to be
   

considered a registered boat. Remember, the lower the percentage, the more
you encourage racers to come out and try.

6. Boats that compete in HRYRA races may receive an average of their
   

annual scores at NBC for the races missed at Nyack, if a Nyack race is held.
The Around Long Island Race should not be considered part of the Nyack
racing venue, and boats competing in that race should not receive an average
of their score.

7. Skippers that volunteer time on the Race Committee and Race Patrol,
   

not as part of their Club duty obligation, may receive an average of their
annual score for that race.

8. As proposed, the annual Club trophy should be determined by
   

performance in all Cruising Fleet venues for 2013 including Sunday, Regatta,
and Wednesday Night racing. Plus see #6 above for HRYRA racing to be
included.

9. In addition, Fleet trophies should be awarded for Sunday, Wednesday
   

Night, Spring Series and Fall Series competitions.

I notice that most of these e-mails below strongly represent members who
race (or crew) in the spinnaker A Division, roughly one-third of those who
race in the Cruising fleet. Could it be that these members pull their crew
from one-design racers in the Club, and so have a vested interest in not
racing on weekends? If this observation offends, I apologize. But one would
be remiss not to mention it.

Lee Luce

Cruising Fleet Secretary

From: Carmen and Ruth Yannelli [mailto:ruthcarm@optonline.net]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:19 PM
To: 'Eric Baumes'; luce01@optonline.net; 'Gary Tenenbaum'; 'Osman Kurtulus';
'Cruising Fleet Racers'
Subject: RE: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

A couple of thoughts, I like the idea of a boat having to compete in a
minimum number of races to be scored for the overall trophy.  I also like
the idea of a minimum number of boats on the line for a race to count
towards the season standings.  I would suggest a 60/40  rule,  you have to
race in 60% of the races in order to be counted in the scoring and a race
will only count if 40% of the fleet (those that raced in 60% of the races)
showed up.  This could lead to a lot of suspense at the end of the season
trying to figure out who won the award,  but we have a few months to figure
it out...  This solves a couple of problems without setting things in stone.
The debate over which races to include goes away,  if boats show up on a
given day the race counts,  if they don't show up it does not count. It's
very simple and reflects the will of the fleet to show up and race.  I think
in the long run this would build participation in Sundays, maybe not
everyone at once,  but a few boats at a time. The other problem solved is
the penalty for missing a race. Assume that 10 boats race over the course of
the season in a given fleet,  but 4 of them only race in a handful of races.
The penalty for missing a race would be 6 + 1 not 10 +1, because boats 7, 8,
9 and 10 would not be counted towards the overall scoring.

As far as the PHRF certificates and fleet membership are concerned,  out of
courtesy to the sucker who has to handle all of the scoring,  get your PHRF
certificates and pay your fleet dues before the season begins.  It only
creates more work for the guy that's volunteering his time to do the
scoring.

Lastly,  as far as HRYRA and other races (ALIR/Vineyard/etc) are concerned,
I feel that we should be supporting the folks who are trying to step up
their game and are representing our club in these events.  Consider giving
an average score for a boat that ventures out to these venues.  Other fleets
in the club do the same thing for boats that are traveling.  You could also
count these boats towards the minimum on any given day and may find out that
more races count because we are including more boats in the scoring.

Carmen

From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Eric
Baumes
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:40 PM
To: luce01@optonline.net; Gary Tenenbaum; Osman Kurtulus; Cruising Fleet
Racers
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

As Gary pointed out we can modify Appendix A at will we do it all the time.
I think anyone last year could have asked for redress in scoring as boats
that did not "register" regularly sailed and were scored.

As for Wed vs. Sun vs. Holiday regattas I think tradition has to look at
reality. 3-4x more boats race wednesday than Sunday and the turnout for
Holiday regattas for cruising boats is not any better. Tradition is great,
but the shift towards weekday vespers series for big boat racing is a
national phenomenon. Economics, shifting demographics and family commitments
are changing the nature of the sport and how people play it. We can either
change with the times or continue fight it.

I have raced on and off on sundays at the club since 2004, and there have
never been more than a handful of boats on the line. When I was racing with
Jack Yates, often time is was just us and Lipscomb. I think we should have a
cruising start on Sunday, but I don't know if it is what people think of
when they think of cruising fleet (PHRF) racing at the club. Perhaps we
should listen to the numbers and the participants.

Finally I take umbrage at the insinuation that I would score counter to the
RRS as modified by the NoR or SIs. I am however as far as I know still
entitled to an opinion.

Sincerely,

E. A. Baumes

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:29 PM, luce01@optonline.net wrote:

Eric -

I would like to point out that if you, as appointed head scorer, insist on
"I am for counting DNC and DNS the same per Osman's recommendation" then
any racer may legitimately protest and request the race results be thrown
out because the scoring does not conform to the Racing Rules of Sailing. The
SIs are clear that we sail under the RRS, but the fleets are responsible for
their own scoring. That doesn't mean anyone has authority to change the
rules at will.

You are, of course, correct that the PHRF divisions last year were horribly
out of whack leading to great scoring inequities, especially in the C
division. I strongly suggest that attention be paid to a more equal set of
PHRF divisions (for example, no more than 8 boats per division), and that
the fleet decide the minimum number of races a boat must complete to be
counted in series scoring. These rules should be in effect before the start
of the racing season.

I am quite pained that anyone would think that regatta or Sunday racing
should not be taken seriously. This is the heart, and historic core-being,
of our Club. You must remember than some members work during the week and
can't make a 6:30 pm start time on Wednesday nights. But most people can
race on Sundays if they choose.

Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Baumes
Date: Monday, March 25, 2013 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

To: David Otterbein
Cc: wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org,
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org

http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org>>

http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org>>

http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org>

All,

It's funny how one can use statistics to paint any picture they want.
Without the benefit of having the numbers in front of me,  I have to ask a
question. If one were to break down the numbers by Wednesday night and
Sunday afternoons instead of by the total number of races,  how do the
percentages compare?  Based on the few details Lee shared,  I would bet it
shows that people don't give a rat's you know what about Sundays,  but they
really enjoy their Wednesday nights.

That said,  I'll share with everyone else the idea I sent to Lee earlier
because I believe it is a fair compromise.

Count the Sunday races and regattas only when there is no Wednesday night
racing.  This approach counts the events with the higher participation
percentages,  gives us roughly the same number of days as the one designs
and gives everyone the opportunity to take cruises with our cruising boats
over summer weekends.  We can still have starts on Sundays when there is
Wednesday night racing,  we would just not include them in the overall
scoring.

No other fleet has racing two days a week on a regular basis.  It's flat out
crazy to expect anyone with a job and/or family to commit to racing two days
a week thru the summer.  Forget about trying to get a crew of 7 or 8 to
commit to 50 dates over roughly 25 weeks.  Setting the bar so high that only
a few can realistically achieve it does nothing to entice the rest of us to
participate.  In fact, it has the opposite effect.

Our goal here should be to come up with a system that is fair to everyone
who wants to participate, not just the few who can race in 50 events or the
few who only want to race on Wednesdays.

Carmen

From: Lee Luce [mailto:luce01@optonline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:49 PM
To: 'Carmen and Ruth Yannelli'; 'Eric Baumes'; 'Gary Tenenbaum'; 'Osman
Kurtulus'; 'Cruising Fleet Racers'
Subject: Cruising Fleet Statistics

To All -

Attached are the racing statistics from 2012 for our Cruising Fleet.

Some highlights:

There were 50 races scheduled, but only 28 races were completed (not
including HRYRA events).

Eighteen races were canceled due to no wind, or bad weather.

Four race days had good wind, but no Cruising Fleet boats showed up on the
starting line.

The A Division spinnaker boats raced only on Wednesdays. If they raced on
Sundays it was in the non-spinnaker divisions.

All races had a minimum of three boats on the starting line.

Fifteen boats raced on Sundays, 27 boats raced on Wednesdays. Four boats who
raced on Sundays did not race on Wednesdays.

Ten boats were listed in the spinnaker A Division, thus a DNC (Did not
Compete) = 11.

Fifteen boats were listed in the non-spinnaker C Division (PHRF < 187), thus
a DNC = 16.

Six boats were listed in the non-spinnaker D Division (PHRF > 187), thus a
DNC = 7.

Racing Frequency

As you can see from the data, the highest frequency of racing was in the D
Division (64%); the lowest frequency of racing was in the spinnaker A
Division (41%).

Only three boats attained 60% or greater frequency of racing.

The average frequency of racing was: A Division -  23.9%, C Division 30.0%,
D Division 45.8%.

Nine boats (out of 31) raced in less than 5 races. Those boats with the
smallest racing percentage were all in the spinnaker A Division because they
did not race on Sundays.

Lee's recommendations (for what it's worth)

1.  Honor and use the U.S. Racing Rules of Sailing for scoring. 
   

2.  Request all racers register by getting a PHRF before May 1st, and
   

announce the PHRF scoring divisions before the first race on May 5th.
(Suggestion: within the non-spinnaker group, three divisions might be
considered for smaller divisions to improve competition, not two.)

3.  Require all scored racers to be paid members of the Cruising Fleet
   

by the time they start racing.

4.  According to the NBC Sailing Instructions, three boats must race to
   

have a fleet start. (Less than three boats on the starting line must start
with the Open Fleet.) As in the past, if three boats race but only one
completes the course in the allotted time, all boats are scored. Likewise,
if only one boat completes the race course, that boat receives a score and
is not penalized because no other competitor shows up. In other words, while
you need three boats to have a starting gun from the race Committee, only
one boat needs to run the course for the race to count.

5.  A boat should complete a minimum of 10% of the races scheduled to be
   

considered a registered boat. Remember, the lower the percentage, the more
you encourage racers to come out and try.

6.  Boats that compete in HRYRA races may receive an average of their
   

annual scores at NBC for the races missed at Nyack, if a Nyack race is held.
The Around Long Island Race should not be considered part of the Nyack
racing venue, and boats competing in that race should not receive an average
of their score.

7.  Skippers that volunteer time on the Race Committee and Race Patrol,
   

not as part of their Club duty obligation, may receive an average of their
annual score for that race.

8.  As proposed, the annual Club trophy should be determined by
   

performance in all Cruising Fleet venues for 2013 including Sunday, Regatta,
and Wednesday Night racing. Plus see #6 above for HRYRA racing to be
included.

9.  In addition, Fleet trophies should be awarded for Sunday, Wednesday
   

Night, Spring Series and Fall Series competitions.

I notice that most of these e-mails below strongly represent members who
race (or crew) in the spinnaker A Division, roughly one-third of those who
race in the Cruising fleet. Could it be that these members pull their crew
from one-design racers in the Club, and so have a vested interest in not
racing on weekends? If this observation offends, I apologize. But one would
be remiss not to mention it.

Lee Luce

Cruising Fleet Secretary

From: Carmen and Ruth Yannelli [mailto:ruthcarm@optonline.net]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:19 PM
To: 'Eric Baumes'; luce01@optonline.net; 'Gary Tenenbaum'; 'Osman Kurtulus';
'Cruising Fleet Racers'
Subject: RE: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

A couple of thoughts, I like the idea of a boat having to compete in a
minimum number of races to be scored for the overall trophy.  I also like
the idea of a minimum number of boats on the line for a race to count
towards the season standings.  I would suggest a 60/40  rule,  you have to
race in 60% of the races in order to be counted in the scoring and a race
will only count if 40% of the fleet (those that raced in 60% of the races)
showed up.  This could lead to a lot of suspense at the end of the season
trying to figure out who won the award,  but we have a few months to figure
it out...  This solves a couple of problems without setting things in stone.
The debate over which races to include goes away,  if boats show up on a
given day the race counts,  if they don't show up it does not count. It's
very simple and reflects the will of the fleet to show up and race.  I think
in the long run this would build participation in Sundays, maybe not
everyone at once,  but a few boats at a time. The other problem solved is
the penalty for missing a race. Assume that 10 boats race over the course of
the season in a given fleet,  but 4 of them only race in a handful of races.
The penalty for missing a race would be 6 + 1 not 10 +1, because boats 7, 8,
9 and 10 would not be counted towards the overall scoring.

As far as the PHRF certificates and fleet membership are concerned,  out of
courtesy to the sucker who has to handle all of the scoring,  get your PHRF
certificates and pay your fleet dues before the season begins.  It only
creates more work for the guy that's volunteering his time to do the
scoring.

Lastly,  as far as HRYRA and other races (ALIR/Vineyard/etc) are concerned,
I feel that we should be supporting the folks who are trying to step up
their game and are representing our club in these events.  Consider giving
an average score for a boat that ventures out to these venues.  Other fleets
in the club do the same thing for boats that are traveling.  You could also
count these boats towards the minimum on any given day and may find out that
more races count because we are including more boats in the scoring.

Carmen

From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Eric
Baumes
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:40 PM
To: luce01@optonline.net; Gary Tenenbaum; Osman Kurtulus; Cruising Fleet
Racers
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

As Gary pointed out we can modify Appendix A at will we do it all the time.
I think anyone last year could have asked for redress in scoring as boats
that did not "register" regularly sailed and were scored.

As for Wed vs. Sun vs. Holiday regattas I think tradition has to look at
reality. 3-4x more boats race wednesday than Sunday and the turnout for
Holiday regattas for cruising boats is not any better. Tradition is great,
but the shift towards weekday vespers series for big boat racing is a
national phenomenon. Economics, shifting demographics and family commitments
are changing the nature of the sport and how people play it. We can either
change with the times or continue fight it.

I have raced on and off on sundays at the club since 2004, and there have
never been more than a handful of boats on the line. When I was racing with
Jack Yates, often time is was just us and Lipscomb. I think we should have a
cruising start on Sunday, but I don't know if it is what people think of
when they think of cruising fleet (PHRF) racing at the club. Perhaps we
should listen to the numbers and the participants.

Finally I take umbrage at the insinuation that I would score counter to the
RRS as modified by the NoR or SIs. I am however as far as I know still
entitled to an opinion.

Sincerely,

E. A. Baumes

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:29 PM, luce01@optonline.net wrote:

Eric -

I would like to point out that if you, as appointed head scorer, insist on
"I am for counting DNC and DNS the same per Osman's recommendation" then
any racer may legitimately protest and request the race results be thrown
out because the scoring does not conform to the Racing Rules of Sailing. The
SIs are clear that we sail under the RRS, but the fleets are responsible for
their own scoring. That doesn't mean anyone has authority to change the
rules at will.

You are, of course, correct that the PHRF divisions last year were horribly
out of whack leading to great scoring inequities, especially in the C
division. I strongly suggest that attention be paid to a more equal set of
PHRF divisions (for example, no more than 8 boats per division), and that
the fleet decide the minimum number of races a boat must complete to be
counted in series scoring. These rules should be in effect before the start
of the racing season.

I am quite pained that anyone would think that regatta or Sunday racing
should not be taken seriously. This is the heart, and historic core-being,
of our Club. You must remember than some members work during the week and
can't make a 6:30 pm start time on Wednesday nights. But most people can
race on Sundays if they choose.

Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Baumes
Date: Monday, March 25, 2013 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

To: David Otterbein
Cc: wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org,
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org

http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org>>

http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org>>

http://maillist.nyackboatclub.org/mailman/listinfo/wednightracing_maillist.n
yackboatclub.org>

When I report statistics, I try to be fair and look at the whole picture,
not just a segment. But, as requested, attached is a break-down of Wednesday
and Sunday racing frequency. I leave everyone to come their own statistical
conclusions. In my opinion implying that Sunday racing is unpopular is
silly, and the numbers bear that out.

I believe the Lasers race both Tuesdays and Sundays.

The proposal to count Sunday racing only when there is no Wednesday racing
seems unfair. Sunday racing is scheduled from the 1st week in May until the
3rd week in September. That leaves five weeks of Sunday racing when there is
no Wednesday racing. Huh?

As far as vacation time goes, the U.S. Racing Rules of Sailing specify a
number of throw-outs per season (five TOs in the 2012 season I believe).
That should cover anyone who worries about taking vacation time and losing
an opportunity to race.

I wish we would stop trying to skew the rules. The low-point scoring rules
have been established for a long time and work well for all of the other
fleets. The Club bestows trophies for each fleet based on racing results
from the entire sailing season. The Fleet trophies are awarded based on
series within that season (Wednesday nights, Sundays, Spring, Fall). The
conflict comes when some want to minimalize all racing except Wednesday
night. For those who work and can't make the start time on Wednesdays, that
seems blatantly unfair.

Lee

From: Carmen and Ruth Yannelli [mailto:ruthcarm@optonline.net]
Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2013 12:32 AM
To: 'Lee Luce'; 'Eric Baumes'; 'Gary Tenenbaum'; 'Osman Kurtulus'; 'Cruising
Fleet Racers'
Subject: RE: Cruising Fleet Statistics

All,

It's funny how one can use statistics to paint any picture they want.
Without the benefit of having the numbers in front of me,  I have to ask a
question. If one were to break down the numbers by Wednesday night and
Sunday afternoons instead of by the total number of races,  how do the
percentages compare?  Based on the few details Lee shared,  I would bet it
shows that people don't give a rat's you know what about Sundays,  but they
really enjoy their Wednesday nights.

That said,  I'll share with everyone else the idea I sent to Lee earlier
because I believe it is a fair compromise.

Count the Sunday races and regattas only when there is no Wednesday night
racing.  This approach counts the events with the higher participation
percentages,  gives us roughly the same number of days as the one designs
and gives everyone the opportunity to take cruises with our cruising boats
over summer weekends.  We can still have starts on Sundays when there is
Wednesday night racing,  we would just not include them in the overall
scoring.

No other fleet has racing two days a week on a regular basis.  It's flat out
crazy to expect anyone with a job and/or family to commit to racing two days
a week thru the summer.  Forget about trying to get a crew of 7 or 8 to
commit to 50 dates over roughly 25 weeks.  Setting the bar so high that only
a few can realistically achieve it does nothing to entice the rest of us to
participate.  In fact, it has the opposite effect.

Our goal here should be to come up with a system that is fair to everyone
who wants to participate, not just the few who can race in 50 events or the
few who only want to race on Wednesdays.

Carmen

From: Lee Luce [mailto:luce01@optonline.net]
Sent: Tuesday, March 26, 2013 10:49 PM
To: 'Carmen and Ruth Yannelli'; 'Eric Baumes'; 'Gary Tenenbaum'; 'Osman
Kurtulus'; 'Cruising Fleet Racers'
Subject: Cruising Fleet Statistics

To All -

Attached are the racing statistics from 2012 for our Cruising Fleet.

Some highlights:

There were 50 races scheduled, but only 28 races were completed (not
including HRYRA events).

Eighteen races were canceled due to no wind, or bad weather.

Four race days had good wind, but no Cruising Fleet boats showed up on the
starting line.

The A Division spinnaker boats raced only on Wednesdays. If they raced on
Sundays it was in the non-spinnaker divisions.

All races had a minimum of three boats on the starting line.

Fifteen boats raced on Sundays, 27 boats raced on Wednesdays. Four boats who
raced on Sundays did not race on Wednesdays.

Ten boats were listed in the spinnaker A Division, thus a DNC (Did not
Compete) = 11.

Fifteen boats were listed in the non-spinnaker C Division (PHRF < 187), thus
a DNC = 16.

Six boats were listed in the non-spinnaker D Division (PHRF > 187), thus a
DNC = 7.

Racing Frequency

As you can see from the data, the highest frequency of racing was in the D
Division (64%); the lowest frequency of racing was in the spinnaker A
Division (41%).

Only three boats attained 60% or greater frequency of racing.

The average frequency of racing was: A Division -  23.9%, C Division 30.0%,
D Division 45.8%.

Nine boats (out of 31) raced in less than 5 races. Those boats with the
smallest racing percentage were all in the spinnaker A Division because they
did not race on Sundays.

Lee's recommendations (for what it's worth)

1. Honor and use the U.S. Racing Rules of Sailing for scoring. 
   

2. Request all racers register by getting a PHRF before May 1st, and
   

announce the PHRF scoring divisions before the first race on May 5th.
(Suggestion: within the non-spinnaker group, three divisions might be
considered for smaller divisions to improve competition, not two.)

3. Require all scored racers to be paid members of the Cruising Fleet by
   

the time they start racing.

4. According to the NBC Sailing Instructions, three boats must race to
   

have a fleet start. (Less than three boats on the starting line must start
with the Open Fleet.) As in the past, if three boats race but only one
completes the course in the allotted time, all boats are scored. Likewise,
if only one boat completes the race course, that boat receives a score and
is not penalized because no other competitor shows up. In other words, while
you need three boats to have a starting gun from the race Committee, only
one boat needs to run the course for the race to count.

5. A boat should complete a minimum of 10% of the races scheduled to be
   

considered a registered boat. Remember, the lower the percentage, the more
you encourage racers to come out and try.

6. Boats that compete in HRYRA races may receive an average of their
   

annual scores at NBC for the races missed at Nyack, if a Nyack race is held.
The Around Long Island Race should not be considered part of the Nyack
racing venue, and boats competing in that race should not receive an average
of their score.

7. Skippers that volunteer time on the Race Committee and Race Patrol,
   

not as part of their Club duty obligation, may receive an average of their
annual score for that race.

8. As proposed, the annual Club trophy should be determined by
   

performance in all Cruising Fleet venues for 2013 including Sunday, Regatta,
and Wednesday Night racing. Plus see #6 above for HRYRA racing to be
included.

9. In addition, Fleet trophies should be awarded for Sunday, Wednesday
   

Night, Spring Series and Fall Series competitions.

I notice that most of these e-mails below strongly represent members who
race (or crew) in the spinnaker A Division, roughly one-third of those who
race in the Cruising fleet. Could it be that these members pull their crew
from one-design racers in the Club, and so have a vested interest in not
racing on weekends? If this observation offends, I apologize. But one would
be remiss not to mention it.

Lee Luce

Cruising Fleet Secretary

From: Carmen and Ruth Yannelli [mailto:ruthcarm@optonline.net]
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 10:19 PM
To: 'Eric Baumes'; luce01@optonline.net; 'Gary Tenenbaum'; 'Osman Kurtulus';
'Cruising Fleet Racers'
Subject: RE: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

A couple of thoughts, I like the idea of a boat having to compete in a
minimum number of races to be scored for the overall trophy.  I also like
the idea of a minimum number of boats on the line for a race to count
towards the season standings.  I would suggest a 60/40  rule,  you have to
race in 60% of the races in order to be counted in the scoring and a race
will only count if 40% of the fleet (those that raced in 60% of the races)
showed up.  This could lead to a lot of suspense at the end of the season
trying to figure out who won the award,  but we have a few months to figure
it out...  This solves a couple of problems without setting things in stone.
The debate over which races to include goes away,  if boats show up on a
given day the race counts,  if they don't show up it does not count. It's
very simple and reflects the will of the fleet to show up and race.  I think
in the long run this would build participation in Sundays, maybe not
everyone at once,  but a few boats at a time. The other problem solved is
the penalty for missing a race. Assume that 10 boats race over the course of
the season in a given fleet,  but 4 of them only race in a handful of races.
The penalty for missing a race would be 6 + 1 not 10 +1, because boats 7, 8,
9 and 10 would not be counted towards the overall scoring.

As far as the PHRF certificates and fleet membership are concerned,  out of
courtesy to the sucker who has to handle all of the scoring,  get your PHRF
certificates and pay your fleet dues before the season begins.  It only
creates more work for the guy that's volunteering his time to do the
scoring.

Lastly,  as far as HRYRA and other races (ALIR/Vineyard/etc) are concerned,
I feel that we should be supporting the folks who are trying to step up
their game and are representing our club in these events.  Consider giving
an average score for a boat that ventures out to these venues.  Other fleets
in the club do the same thing for boats that are traveling.  You could also
count these boats towards the minimum on any given day and may find out that
more races count because we are including more boats in the scoring.

Carmen

From: Wednightracing
[mailto:wednightracing-bounces@maillist.nyackboatclub.org] On Behalf Of Eric
Baumes
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2013 6:40 PM
To: luce01@optonline.net; Gary Tenenbaum; Osman Kurtulus; Cruising Fleet
Racers
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

As Gary pointed out we can modify Appendix A at will we do it all the time.
I think anyone last year could have asked for redress in scoring as boats
that did not "register" regularly sailed and were scored.

As for Wed vs. Sun vs. Holiday regattas I think tradition has to look at
reality. 3-4x more boats race wednesday than Sunday and the turnout for
Holiday regattas for cruising boats is not any better. Tradition is great,
but the shift towards weekday vespers series for big boat racing is a
national phenomenon. Economics, shifting demographics and family commitments
are changing the nature of the sport and how people play it. We can either
change with the times or continue fight it.

I have raced on and off on sundays at the club since 2004, and there have
never been more than a handful of boats on the line. When I was racing with
Jack Yates, often time is was just us and Lipscomb. I think we should have a
cruising start on Sunday, but I don't know if it is what people think of
when they think of cruising fleet (PHRF) racing at the club. Perhaps we
should listen to the numbers and the participants.

Finally I take umbrage at the insinuation that I would score counter to the
RRS as modified by the NoR or SIs. I am however as far as I know still
entitled to an opinion.

Sincerely,

E. A. Baumes

On Mon, Mar 25, 2013 at 5:29 PM, luce01@optonline.net wrote:

Eric -

I would like to point out that if you, as appointed head scorer, insist on
"I am for counting DNC and DNS the same per Osman's recommendation" then
any racer may legitimately protest and request the race results be thrown
out because the scoring does not conform to the Racing Rules of Sailing. The
SIs are clear that we sail under the RRS, but the fleets are responsible for
their own scoring. That doesn't mean anyone has authority to change the
rules at will.

You are, of course, correct that the PHRF divisions last year were horribly
out of whack leading to great scoring inequities, especially in the C
division. I strongly suggest that attention be paid to a more equal set of
PHRF divisions (for example, no more than 8 boats per division), and that
the fleet decide the minimum number of races a boat must complete to be
counted in series scoring. These rules should be in effect before the start
of the racing season.

I am quite pained that anyone would think that regatta or Sunday racing
should not be taken seriously. This is the heart, and historic core-being,
of our Club. You must remember than some members work during the week and
can't make a 6:30 pm start time on Wednesday nights. But most people can
race on Sundays if they choose.

Lee

----- Original Message -----
From: Eric Baumes
Date: Monday, March 25, 2013 1:47 pm
Subject: Re: [CruisingFleetRacing] Trophies and Scoring for Cruising Fleet

To: David Otterbein
Cc: wednightracing@nyackboatclub.org,
wednightracing@maillist.nyackboatclub.org

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