Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
Again, if anyone makes PCBs PLEASE include a way to program the uP on
the card without need of extra hardware. The firmware will get
upgraded and not everyone has a programmer. There must be a way for
end users upgrade the firmware.
Chris Albertson
.. although you can get "Blaster" programmers, requiring just a 10-bit
header on the PC for about US $10.
and the software is free.
Cheers,
David
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
And again, if a picaxe is used, the programming connection can be
built-in. It takes two resistors and can use a 3-pin .1 in connector.
The program can be easily read in and modified at will, no special
programmers are required, just a serial port. Users can buy the picaxes
from several vendors, so no preprogrammed chips have to be sent around.
The latest programs could be stored by the usual suspects :-). SanDisk
pinout boards are cheap from Sparkfun, so big data set storage is a
snap.
OTH, Chris Albertson has just tipped us off to a very rich cost
effective environment, an Arduino and Labview. Got one on order, can't
resist. The picaxes may have to stay in the drawer for this app. . .
Don
David J Taylor
Again, if anyone makes PCBs PLEASE include a way to program the uP on
the card without need of extra hardware. The firmware will get
upgraded and not everyone has a programmer. There must be a way for
end users upgrade the firmware.
Chris Albertson
.. although you can get "Blaster" programmers, requiring just a 10-bit
header on the PC for about US $10.
and the software is free.
Cheers,
David
SatSignal software - quality software written to your requirements
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
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--
"Neither the voice of authority nor the weight of reason and argument
are as significant as experiment, for thence comes quiet to the mind."
R. Bacon
"If you don't know what it is, don't poke it."
Ghost in the Shell
Dr. Don Latham AJ7LL
Six Mile Systems LLP
17850 Six Mile Road
POB 134
Huson, MT, 59846
VOX 406-626-4304
www.lightningforensics.com
www.sixmilesystems.com
Here is a common misconception. Most consumer grade "24bit" sound cards only have 16 bit ADCs but 24 bit equivalent DACs (most of them are actually 1bit DAC with oversampling.)
You have to spend a pretty penny to get a 24 bit ADC running at multiples of 44ks/s.
Further, the very poor DC performance of the typically sound card 16 bit ADC is hidden by the analog and digital filtering of the card and the driver.
If anyone has an inexpensive (<$100) sound card with true 24 bit ADC (if they are capable of DC, so much the better), please let me know because I have been looking for one.
Didier KO4BB
PS: to remain on topic, I agree with the principle of using a PC to breadboard something, as long as the hardware interface remains simpler than a cheap microcontroller, bit it is easy to get carried away and build PC-based hardware for the purpose of running a test, and having to redo all from scratch to convert it to a uC solution for the final application.
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:15:42
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:19 AM, EWKehren@aol.com wrote:
What we know is that you can set the Rb in 7 E-13. Dithering would allow
even closer setting, the question is what rate will the Rb accept with out
loosing lock or deterioration of the performance. Some one should explore
that. I am still waiting to se some aging. Taking the 10 MHz output and than
use an analog loop and something like a Morion OCXO and you have the best of
all.
Digitally controlling the Rb will cut the cost of the control loop in half.
For $10 in parts and a PC board for less than $10 using Shera like
controller can be realized. What is needed is some one able to do the PIC.
If some one is interested and able, please contact me off list. A low cost
GPS or a 1 pps output of a Tbolt be perfect source.
Bert Kehren
Don't use a PIC for the prototype. A desktop PC could work as well
and everyone here already has one. Connect the FE5680 to the PC's
serial port and send commands to adjust it. The PC also needs to be
able to read a voltage. Many already have audio input with 24-bit
ADC chips.
Later you can move the C code from the PC pretty much directly to an
AVR. PICs typically use assembly language, that is harder and limits
the number of people who can contribute changes to the code. But you
can start with a PC, maybe running Linux or BSD.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
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In message <1813878810-1326568434-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1602
959624-@b17.c24.bise6.blackberry>, shalimr9@gmail.com writes:
If anyone has an inexpensive (<$100) sound card with true 24 bit ADC (if
they are capable of DC, so much the better), please let me know because I
have been looking for one.
Check out the ADUC 7061 chip from analog: ARM7 + 2x24bit ADC.
The ADC ony does 8ksps and generally levels out around 21 bits, but still
very interesting for many purposes, in particular because of the built
in chopper.
--
Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20
phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956
FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe
Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.
Silabs has a uC, I think it is the C8051F350 but I may be wrong, that has a 24 bit ADC with 1-128 gain PGA and offset DAC (and two 8 bit DACs).
Most their chips are available already soldered to a small development board called Toolstick that typically costs $10. You will also need a $20 base Adapter (the USB programmer/debugger)
You can use the demo Keil compiler, but it is severely crippled, so instead I recommend the free SDCC.
Silabs has lots of sample software for their chips, and an excellent (free) IDE/debugger that supports Keil, SDCC and other compilers.
I do have an article on the wiki on my web site about it www.ko4bb.com
I also have a page about a simple audio generator using an 8051 as DDS on my web site that describes the tools I use and how to configure the IDE for SDCC.
Didier KO4BB
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Lux jimlux@earthlink.net
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:37:13
To: time-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
On 1/13/12 8:15 AM, Chris Albertson wrote:
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:19 AM,EWKehren@aol.com wrote:
What we know is that you can set the Rb in 7 E-13. Dithering would allow
even closer setting, the question is what rate will the Rb accept with out
loosing lock or deterioration of the performance. Some one should explore
that. I am still waiting to se some aging. Taking the 10 MHz output and than
use an analog loop and something like a Morion OCXO and you have the best of
all.
Digitally controlling the Rb will cut the cost of the control loop in half.
For $10 in parts and a PC board for less than $10 using Shera like
controller can be realized. What is needed is some one able to do the PIC.
If some one is interested and able, please contact me off list. A low cost
GPS or a 1 pps output of a Tbolt be perfect source.
Bert Kehren
Don't use a PIC for the prototype. A desktop PC could work as well
and everyone here already has one. Connect the FE5680 to the PC's
serial port and send commands to adjust it. The PC also needs to be
able to read a voltage. Many already have audio input with 24-bit
ADC chips.
But those audio inputs are almost always AC coupled.
Bringing up a question: Does anyone know of a cheap (<$20ish) USB
voltage sensor (16 bits or better, ideally).. I can see one of those
Atmel USB capable micros (like the one on the Arduino Uno) hooked to a
dual slope or successive approximation ADC.
There seem to be an amazing number of times that I want something like
that. The DATAQ $29 widget is only 10 bits, unfortunately. A USB
interface DMM would work nicely, but I haven't found one that's in the
under $50 price range.
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Didier, check the HPSDR Janus baseband interface and related bits. It's a very good ADC on a board designed with time-nuttish care and can do up 192ksps. The downside is that it doesn't have a soundcard interface; the upside is that the hardware and SDR software that alkmto it are all open source.
http://openhpsdr.org/janus.php
John
On Jan 14, 2012, at 2:13 PM, shalimr9@gmail.com wrote:
Here is a common misconception. Most consumer grade "24bit" sound cards only have 16 bit ADCs but 24 bit equivalent DACs (most of them are actually 1bit DAC with oversampling.)
You have to spend a pretty penny to get a 24 bit ADC running at multiples of 44ks/s.
Further, the very poor DC performance of the typically sound card 16 bit ADC is hidden by the analog and digital filtering of the card and the driver.
If anyone has an inexpensive (<$100) sound card with true 24 bit ADC (if they are capable of DC, so much the better), please let me know because I have been looking for one.
Didier KO4BB
PS: to remain on topic, I agree with the principle of using a PC to breadboard something, as long as the hardware interface remains simpler than a cheap microcontroller, bit it is easy to get carried away and build PC-based hardware for the purpose of running a test, and having to redo all from scratch to convert it to a uC solution for the final application.
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless thingy while I do other things...
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Albertson albertson.chris@gmail.com
Sender: time-nuts-bounces@febo.com
Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2012 08:15:42
To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurementtime-nuts@febo.com
Reply-To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
time-nuts@febo.com
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680A Mechanical Question
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 3:19 AM, EWKehren@aol.com wrote:
What we know is that you can set the Rb in 7 E-13. Dithering would allow
even closer setting, the question is what rate will the Rb accept with out
loosing lock or deterioration of the performance. Some one should explore
that. I am still waiting to se some aging. Taking the 10 MHz output and than
use an analog loop and something like a Morion OCXO and you have the best of
all.
Digitally controlling the Rb will cut the cost of the control loop in half.
For $10 in parts and a PC board for less than $10 using Shera like
controller can be realized. What is needed is some one able to do the PIC.
If some one is interested and able, please contact me off list. A low cost
GPS or a 1 pps output of a Tbolt be perfect source.
Bert Kehren
Don't use a PIC for the prototype. A desktop PC could work as well
and everyone here already has one. Connect the FE5680 to the PC's
serial port and send commands to adjust it. The PC also needs to be
able to read a voltage. Many already have audio input with 24-bit
ADC chips.
Later you can move the C code from the PC pretty much directly to an
AVR. PICs typically use assembly language, that is harder and limits
the number of people who can contribute changes to the code. But you
can start with a PC, maybe running Linux or BSD.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California
time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com
To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts
and follow the instructions there.
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and follow the instructions there.
On Sat, Jan 14, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Don Latham djl@montana.com wrote:
And again, if a picaxe is used, the programming connection can be
built-in. It takes two resistors and can use a 3-pin .1 in connector.
The program can be easily read in and modified at will, no special
programmers are required, just a serial port. Users can buy the picaxes
from several vendors, so no preprogrammed chips have to be sent around.
The latest programs could be stored by the usual suspects :-). SanDisk
pinout boards are cheap from Sparkfun, so big data set storage is a
snap.
OTH, Chris Albertson has just tipped us off to a very rich cost
effective environment, an Arduino and Labview. Got one on order, can't
resist. The picaxes may have to stay in the drawer for this app. . .
Don
A PICAXE is a PIC with a boot loader preprogrammed into it. Arduino
is an AVR with a boot loader preprogrammed into it. I like the AVR
because it uses the very same GCC C/C++ compiler I use for everything
else. I can test some things on the desktop computer then
recompile on the AVR. The Arduino is simply an AVR, on a
standardized PCB. The decision to standardize means that you can buy
standard daughter cards. You can build exotic stuff like web
controlled stepper motor drivers with no soldering.
I was very surprised to find the Labview bundle. It is normally a
$5,000 package. But then I looked and found the Student version of
Labview is always $20. And they don't ask if you are a student.
(Actually however I am, at age 50+ I enrolled in the local community
collage, music department.)
I'm never afraid of "overkill" on a one up project. The last big
embedded hobby system I worked on has an astronomical camera. One
thing you have to do with a CCD image sensor is clock the charge off
the chip then route it to an ADC. I used a full size desktop PC
running Real Time Linux to generate the clocks or the CCD. Gross
overkill but I could telnet into the camera controller and look around
inside even with the camera on the other coast 2,000 miles away.
Chris Albertson
Redondo Beach, California