Gram Rupert, My major problem has been with F-P and the quality of the boat and the lack of factory backup to repair what was supposed to be a new boat. The hull material is so thin that light comes thru even in areas that have a material liner on the interior. The fit and finish is poor and inconsistent. The dealer has walked away from the boat and assumes no responsibility at all. F-P even states that they do not sell boats in the U.S. and that in itself is a joke. I am working with an attorney but the U.S. court system is slow and tedious and F-P denies that they do business in the states so this is becoming a nightmare. Michael, A number of things concern me with this ; 1) Your contract was with the US dealer I assume and in the UK this means this is your recourse in law- so why are you not pursuing the dealer? If things are as bad as you say (I am sceptical I must admit) then how can the dealer just 'walk away'? FP will quite understandably say they do not do sell boats direct in the US if they have a dealer channel agreement in place. 2) During the buying process did you not look at a demo boat to gauge the standard of fit and finish? 3) During the handover process did you not have an opportunity to reject various parts of the boat prior to acceptance? This is normal practise and I did this with FP in factory in La Rochelle when I came across some minor items that I wanted re-worked. If you do not have the knowledge to survey yourself I would have thought it would have been a a good plan to either employ a marine surveyor or a friend with suitable experience in these matters. On one of my 3 visits to the factory during the build (which they were more than happy to accomodate and in fact the technical director wined and dined me on every occassion) I came across a US purchaser who was actually staying in La Rochelle for the build period as he had some custom work in progress and wanted to keep an eye on this and the whole build in general. Very sensible really when you consider the cost of buying these vessels. Finally I would say having seen the production facilities at FP and seeing the hulls being constructed with modern vacuum resin infusion techniques I find your alleged hull problems very difficult to comprehend. Ian [IMAGE] Ian Fisher Operations Director Phone:+44(0)1934 836960 Fax:+44(0)1934 643267 QED Advanced Systems Limited 18/19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon Crescent, Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, BS24 9AY, UK www.qedas.com QED News - Meeting Monitor (M2) system launch We are pleased to announce the launch of the QED Meeting Monitor (M2) system. This is an application that leverages the standard Lotus Notes Resource Reservation system and enables real-time information for each meeting room to be displayed on a colour coded LCD display outside each room. This provides improved visibility of meeting room availability, better usage of room resources and allows free rooms to be instantly utilised for impromptu meetings. With a low cost hardware requirement and use of standard network cabling this is a simple installation that will quickly pay for itself. For a brochure click on this link http://www.qedas.com/m2 or give us a call on 01934 836960 and ask for Peter Liddle or Ian Fisher. Mail Signature by[IMAGE] Contact QED today for more details ***************************************************************************** * Monitoring/Viruses QED may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current legislation. Although we have taken steps to ensure that this email and attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keeping with good computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus free. QED Advanced Systems Ltd. is registered in England No 691979760, located at 18-19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon Crescent, Weston-super-Mare, North Somerset BS24 9AY, UK. Telephone 0044 (0)1934 836960. [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif] [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif]

I must confess to having a vested interest in the answers to these questions as I have spent some time considering a F-P (perhaps one step down from the Cumberland). I immediately thought of a trial and a visit to la Rochelle, and in no way would I buy a boat without one. Rupert. On 5 Jan 2008, at 17:38, ian.fisher@qedas.com wrote: > Gram Rupert, > My major problem has been with F-P and the > quality of the boat and the lack of factory backup to > repair what was supposed to be a new boat. The hull > material is so thin that light comes thru even in > areas that have a material liner on the interior. The > fit and finish is poor and inconsistent. The dealer > has walked away from the boat and assumes no > responsibility at all. F-P even states that they do > not sell boats in the U.S. and that in itself is a > joke. I am working with an attorney but the U.S. court > system is slow and tedious and F-P denies that they do > business in the states so this is becoming a > nightmare. > > Michael, > > A number of things concern me with this ; > > 1) Your contract was with the US dealer I assume and in the UK this > means > this is your recourse in law- so why are you not pursuing the > dealer? If > things are as bad as you say (I am sceptical I must admit) then how > can > the dealer just 'walk away'? FP will quite understandably say they > do not > do sell boats direct in the US if they have a dealer channel > agreement in > place. > > 2) During the buying process did you not look at a demo boat to > gauge the > standard of fit and finish? > > 3) During the handover process did you not have an opportunity to > reject > various parts of the boat prior to acceptance? This is normal practise > and I did this with FP in factory in La Rochelle when I came across > some > minor items that I wanted re-worked. If you do not have the > knowledge to > survey yourself I would have thought it would have been a a good > plan to > either employ a marine surveyor or a friend with suitable > experience in > these matters. > > On one of my 3 visits to the factory during the build (which they were > more than happy to accomodate and in fact the technical director wined > and dined me on every occassion) I came across a US purchaser who was > actually staying in La Rochelle for the build period as he had some > custom work in progress and wanted to keep an eye on this and the > whole > build in general. Very sensible really when you consider the cost of > buying these vessels. > > Finally I would say having seen the production facilities at FP and > seeing the hulls being constructed with modern vacuum resin infusion > techniques I find your alleged hull problems very difficult to > comprehend. > > Ian > > [IMAGE] > > Ian Fisher > Operations Director > Phone:+44(0)1934 836960 > Fax:+44(0)1934 643267 > > QED Advanced Systems Limited > 18/19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon Crescent, > Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, BS24 9AY, UK > www.qedas.com > > QED News - Meeting Monitor (M2) system launch > We are pleased to announce the launch of the QED Meeting Monitor (M2) > system. This is an application that leverages the standard Lotus Notes > Resource Reservation system and enables real-time information for each > meeting room to be displayed on a colour coded LCD display outside > each > room. This provides improved visibility of meeting room availability, > better usage of room resources and allows free rooms to be instantly > utilised for impromptu meetings. > > With a low cost hardware requirement and use of standard network > cabling > this is a simple installation that will quickly pay for itself. For a > brochure click on this link http://www.qedas.com/m2 or give us a > call on > 01934 836960 and ask for Peter Liddle or Ian Fisher. > > Mail Signature by[IMAGE] Contact QED today for more details > > ********************************************************************** > ******* > * > Monitoring/Viruses > QED may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails in line with current > legislation. Although we have taken steps to ensure that this email > and > attachments are free from any virus, we advise that in keeping with > good > computing practice the recipient should ensure they are actually virus > free. > > QED Advanced Systems Ltd. is registered in England No 691979760, > located at 18-19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon Crescent, Weston-super- > Mare, > North Somerset BS24 9AY, UK. > Telephone 0044 (0)1934 836960. > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif] > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type image/gif] > _______________________________________________ > Power-Catamaran Mailing List

  ____________________________________________________________________________________

--- gram rupert <gramario@tin.it> wrote: > I must confess to having a vested interest in the > answers to these > questions as I have spent some time considering a > F-P (perhaps one > step down from the Cumberland). I immediately > thought of a trial and > a visit to la Rochelle, and in no way would I buy a > boat without one. > > Rupert. > Rupert, I will answer the questions in the order they were asked. 1.My contract with the dealer stated they have NO RESPONSIBILITY in regards to the quality of the vessel and then FP stated that there stateside distributor works closely with them. A basic lie by both. I am now in process of a law suit with both but who knows how long that will take. I have also recently found out that the U.S. broker is not well trusted in the industry. 2. I had seen earlier versions of the vessel that were on the market and they all looked good even though they had been in the charter service. 3. I never saw the vessel I bought since it came direct from the factory and was delivered to me. That was the first time I saw what I had purchased and was not given any time to have the boat checked out since the delivery was made in the caribbean and the broker had to return to the states immediately. I got what is called the bums rush. The broker did come to see the boat when I hauled it out to install some new thru hulls for additions to the boat and that is when I started to discover many problems. That was within two weeks of the delivery and then the problems started. 4.I have had the boat surveyed on two different occasions and the factory is denying the problems that are refered to in the two surveys. It may be difficult for Ian to comprehend my problems but they are real and I am living with these difficulties and they are costing me greatly so there is no way in the world I could recommend to anyone to purchase a FP product. If FP decides to do the correct thing and take care of this vessel I might consider them as reputable builder but they are showing no signs at all to help me nor admit that they have produce a poorly built vessel. I think my boat was the last one out of the 37 mould and it shows. Michael > On 5 Jan 2008, at 17:38, ian.fisher@qedas.com wrote: > > > Gram Rupert, > > My major problem has been with F-P and the > > quality of the boat and the lack of factory backup > to > > repair what was supposed to be a new boat. The > hull > > material is so thin that light comes thru even in > > areas that have a material liner on the interior. > The > > fit and finish is poor and inconsistent. The > dealer > > has walked away from the boat and assumes no > > responsibility at all. F-P even states that they > do > > not sell boats in the U.S. and that in itself is a > > joke. I am working with an attorney but the U.S. > court > > system is slow and tedious and F-P denies that > they do > > business in the states so this is becoming a > > nightmare. > > > > Michael, > > > > A number of things concern me with this ; > > > > 1) Your contract was with the US dealer I assume > and in the UK this > > means > > this is your recourse in law- so why are you not > pursuing the > > dealer? If > > things are as bad as you say (I am sceptical I > must admit) then how > > can > > the dealer just 'walk away'? FP will quite > understandably say they > > do not > > do sell boats direct in the US if they have a > dealer channel > > agreement in > > place. > > > > 2) During the buying process did you not look at a > demo boat to > > gauge the > > standard of fit and finish? > > > > 3) During the handover process did you not have an > opportunity to > > reject > > various parts of the boat prior to acceptance? > This is normal practise > > and I did this with FP in factory in La Rochelle > when I came across > > some > > minor items that I wanted re-worked. If you do not > have the > > knowledge to > > survey yourself I would have thought it would have > been a a good > > plan to > > either employ a marine surveyor or a friend with > suitable > > experience in > > these matters. > > > > On one of my 3 visits to the factory during the > build (which they were > > more than happy to accomodate and in fact the > technical director wined > > and dined me on every occassion) I came across a > US purchaser who was > > actually staying in La Rochelle for the build > period as he had some > > custom work in progress and wanted to keep an eye > on this and the > > whole > > build in general. Very sensible really when you > consider the cost of > > buying these vessels. > > > > Finally I would say having seen the production > facilities at FP and > > seeing the hulls being constructed with modern > vacuum resin infusion > > techniques I find your alleged hull problems very > difficult to > > comprehend. > > > > Ian > > > > [IMAGE] > > > > Ian Fisher > > Operations Director > > Phone:+44(0)1934 836960 > > Fax:+44(0)1934 643267 > > > > QED Advanced Systems Limited > > 18/19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon Crescent, > > Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, BS24 9AY, UK > > www.qedas.com > > > > QED News - Meeting Monitor (M2) system launch > > We are pleased to announce the launch of the QED > Meeting Monitor (M2) > > system. This is an application that leverages the > standard Lotus Notes > > Resource Reservation system and enables real-time > information for each > > meeting room to be displayed on a colour coded LCD > display outside > > each > > room. This provides improved visibility of meeting > room availability, > > better usage of room resources and allows free > rooms to be instantly > > utilised for impromptu meetings. > > > > With a low cost hardware requirement and use of > standard network > > cabling > > this is a simple installation that will quickly > pay for itself. For a > > brochure click on this link > http://www.qedas.com/m2 or give us a > > call on > > 01934 836960 and ask for Peter Liddle or Ian > Fisher. > > > > Mail Signature by[IMAGE] Contact QED today for > more details > > > > > ********************************************************************** > > > ******* > > * > > Monitoring/Viruses > > QED may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails > in line with current > > legislation. Although we have taken steps to > ensure that this email > > and > > attachments are free from any virus, we advise > that in keeping with > > good > > computing practice the recipient should ensure > they are actually virus > > free. > > > > QED Advanced Systems Ltd. is registered in England > No 691979760, > > located at 18-19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon > Crescent, Weston-super- > > Mare, > > North Somerset BS24 9AY, UK. > > Telephone 0044 (0)1934 836960. > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type > image/gif] > > > > [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type > image/gif] > > _______________________________________________ > > Power-Catamaran Mailing List > _______________________________________________ > Power-Catamaran Mailing List > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

Michael, You have my sympathy, and I hope it all works out for you. I also hope that I (and others) will manage to steer clear of your cowboy broker, whoever he/she may be. After all thi disappointment and cricitism of F-P, then, would anyone care to comment other makers. I have heard of Geminie's capsizing fairly, and I read that one of James Wharrams's lost a mast or similar. The sea is obviously a harsh place, but is there not be someone who takes pride in top-class quality; the Rolls Royce, or Porsche, of the sector? Or is there? gram. On 6 Jan 2008, at 01:12, Design Assoc. & AquaKlear wrote: > --- gram rupert <gramario@tin.it> wrote: > >> I must confess to having a vested interest in the >> answers to these >> questions as I have spent some time considering a >> F-P (perhaps one >> step down from the Cumberland). I immediately >> thought of a trial and >> a visit to la Rochelle, and in no way would I buy a >> boat without one. >> >> Rupert. >> > Rupert, > I will answer the questions in the order they > were asked. > 1.My contract with the dealer stated they have NO > RESPONSIBILITY in regards to the quality of the vessel > and then FP stated that there stateside distributor > works closely with them. A basic lie by both. > I am now in process of a law suit with both but who > knows how long that will take. I have also recently > found out that the U.S. broker is not well trusted in > the industry. > 2. I had seen earlier versions of the vessel that were > on the market and they all looked good even though > they had been in the charter service. > 3. I never saw the vessel I bought since it came > direct from the factory and was delivered to me. That > was the first time I saw what I had purchased and was > not given any time to have the boat checked out since > the delivery was made in the caribbean and the broker > had to return to the states immediately. I got what is > called the bums rush. The broker did come to see the > boat when I hauled it out to install some new thru > hulls for additions to the boat and that is when I > started to discover many problems. That was within two > weeks of the delivery and then the problems started. > 4.I have had the boat surveyed on two different > occasions and the factory is denying the problems that > are refered to in the two surveys. > It may be difficult for Ian to comprehend my > problems but they are real and I am living with these > difficulties and they are costing me greatly so there > is no way in the world I could recommend to anyone to > purchase a FP product. If FP decides to do the correct > thing and take care of this vessel I might consider > them as reputable builder but they are showing no > signs at all to help me nor admit that they have > produce a poorly built vessel. I think my boat was the > last one out of the 37 mould and it shows. > Michael >> On 5 Jan 2008, at 17:38, ian.fisher@qedas.com wrote: >> >>> Gram Rupert, >>> My major problem has been with F-P and the >>> quality of the boat and the lack of factory backup >> to >>> repair what was supposed to be a new boat. The >> hull >>> material is so thin that light comes thru even in >>> areas that have a material liner on the interior. >> The >>> fit and finish is poor and inconsistent. The >> dealer >>> has walked away from the boat and assumes no >>> responsibility at all. F-P even states that they >> do >>> not sell boats in the U.S. and that in itself is a >>> joke. I am working with an attorney but the U.S. >> court >>> system is slow and tedious and F-P denies that >> they do >>> business in the states so this is becoming a >>> nightmare. >>> >>> Michael, >>> >>> A number of things concern me with this ; >>> >>> 1) Your contract was with the US dealer I assume >> and in the UK this >>> means >>> this is your recourse in law- so why are you not >> pursuing the >>> dealer? If >>> things are as bad as you say (I am sceptical I >> must admit) then how >>> can >>> the dealer just 'walk away'? FP will quite >> understandably say they >>> do not >>> do sell boats direct in the US if they have a >> dealer channel >>> agreement in >>> place. >>> >>> 2) During the buying process did you not look at a >> demo boat to >>> gauge the >>> standard of fit and finish? >>> >>> 3) During the handover process did you not have an >> opportunity to >>> reject >>> various parts of the boat prior to acceptance? >> This is normal practise >>> and I did this with FP in factory in La Rochelle >> when I came across >>> some >>> minor items that I wanted re-worked. If you do not >> have the >>> knowledge to >>> survey yourself I would have thought it would have >> been a a good >>> plan to >>> either employ a marine surveyor or a friend with >> suitable >>> experience in >>> these matters. >>> >>> On one of my 3 visits to the factory during the >> build (which they were >>> more than happy to accomodate and in fact the >> technical director wined >>> and dined me on every occassion) I came across a >> US purchaser who was >>> actually staying in La Rochelle for the build >> period as he had some >>> custom work in progress and wanted to keep an eye >> on this and the >>> whole >>> build in general. Very sensible really when you >> consider the cost of >>> buying these vessels. >>> >>> Finally I would say having seen the production >> facilities at FP and >>> seeing the hulls being constructed with modern >> vacuum resin infusion >>> techniques I find your alleged hull problems very >> difficult to >>> comprehend. >>> >>> Ian >>> >>> [IMAGE] >>> >>> Ian Fisher >>> Operations Director >>> Phone:+44(0)1934 836960 >>> Fax:+44(0)1934 643267 >>> >>> QED Advanced Systems Limited >>> 18/19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon Crescent, >>> Weston-super-Mare, Somerset, BS24 9AY, UK >>> www.qedas.com >>> >>> QED News - Meeting Monitor (M2) system launch >>> We are pleased to announce the launch of the QED >> Meeting Monitor (M2) >>> system. This is an application that leverages the >> standard Lotus Notes >>> Resource Reservation system and enables real-time >> information for each >>> meeting room to be displayed on a colour coded LCD >> display outside >>> each >>> room. This provides improved visibility of meeting >> room availability, >>> better usage of room resources and allows free >> rooms to be instantly >>> utilised for impromptu meetings. >>> >>> With a low cost hardware requirement and use of >> standard network >>> cabling >>> this is a simple installation that will quickly >> pay for itself. For a >>> brochure click on this link >> http://www.qedas.com/m2 or give us a >>> call on >>> 01934 836960 and ask for Peter Liddle or Ian >> Fisher. >>> >>> Mail Signature by[IMAGE] Contact QED today for >> more details >>> >>> >> > ********************************************************************** >> >>> ******* >>> * >>> Monitoring/Viruses >>> QED may monitor all incoming and outgoing emails >> in line with current >>> legislation. Although we have taken steps to >> ensure that this email >>> and >>> attachments are free from any virus, we advise >> that in keeping with >>> good >>> computing practice the recipient should ensure >> they are actually virus >>> free. >>> >>> QED Advanced Systems Ltd. is registered in England >> No 691979760, >>> located at 18-19 Bridgwater Court, Oldmixon >> Crescent, Weston-super- >>> Mare, >>> North Somerset BS24 9AY, UK. >>> Telephone 0044 (0)1934 836960. >>> >>> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type >> image/gif] >>> >>> [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type >> image/gif] >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Power-Catamaran Mailing List >> _______________________________________________ >> Power-Catamaran Mailing List >> > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ______________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http:// > mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > _______________________________________________ > Power-Catamaran Mailing List