Thanks, Doug K6JEY

Bobs Comments are on target. The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may not clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt to recover the tube. In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. The beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading out like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. The tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes are pretty much dead. As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago when I picked up my 2nd 5061. I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely gets a discount we don't. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > > > > On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's > > possible > > to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, I'm > > terribly > > Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before > you could do > anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic > standard made by > anybody that does something like that. > > > > surprised and disappointed. > > > > Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it > > reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? > > > Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I have > indeed proven that > to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A “standard > grade” tube should > run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model tube > from what era and > who made the specific tube. > > Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones ( > = what we play with) > are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. They > may not all be made > anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs > standards with dead > tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out of …. > > Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I did > that the bill was > about $38,000. That included them putting it in. > > Bob > > > > > Dana > > > > > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the > >> tube. You can > >> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is > >> that the fuel > >> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Hi Doug > >>> > >>> Is it possible to test its operation and > >>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug > >> Millar > >>> via time-nuts > >>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 > >>> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable > >>> > >>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. > The > >>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since > then. > >>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not > >> tested it > >>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit > >> is > >>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long > Beach, > >> CA. > >>> 90806 > >>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary > >> resistance > >>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very > reasonable. > >>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- > >>> No virus found in this message. > >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: > >> 05/19/18 > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Thanks, Doug K6JEY

Hi Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and shipping hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly reasons the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a Cs standard falls into the hazardous category. So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and certified as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate with your favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then come out and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper standards. Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs standard. Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of months to get it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat label on the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what is needed for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and the fees involved ….) So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive hits the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of actually hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process is probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is flashing. Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs standard, ( without all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications ) you may get into all sorts of nonsense. If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going to get delivered. If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably is not going to get returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it …. Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance of it getting noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at that point all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen. Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement …. Bob > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Bobs > Comments are on target. > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may not > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt to > recover the tube. > > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. The > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading out > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. The > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. > > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes > are pretty much dead. > > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago when I > picked up my 2nd 5061. > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely gets > a discount we don't. > > Regards > Paul > WB8TSL > > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> >> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that it's >>> possible >>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, I'm >>> terribly >> >> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before >> you could do >> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic >> standard made by >> anybody that does something like that. >> >> >>> surprised and disappointed. >>> >>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until it >>> reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? >> >> >> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I have >> indeed proven that >> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A “standard >> grade” tube should >> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model tube >> from what era and >> who made the specific tube. >> >> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones ( >> = what we play with) >> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. They >> may not all be made >> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs >> standards with dead >> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out of …. >> >> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I did >> that the bill was >> about $38,000. That included them putting it in. >> >> Bob >> >>> >>> Dana >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in the >>>> tube. You can >>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you is >>>> that the fuel >>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Doug >>>>> >>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and >>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of Doug >>>> Millar >>>>> via time-nuts >>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 >>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable >>>>> >>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. >> The >>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since >> then. >>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not >>>> tested it >>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The unit >>>> is >>>>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long >> Beach, >>>> CA. >>>>> 90806 >>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary >>>> resistance >>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very >> reasonable. >>>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- >>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: >>>> 05/19/18 >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

Thanks, Doug K6JEY

Bob I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't. There was a document from HP. But its been a long time. I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way. Just saying. Neither right or wrong. Regards Paul On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > Hi > > Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. > > Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and > shipping > hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly > reasons > the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a > Cs > standard falls into the hazardous category. > > So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and > certified > as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate > with your > favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then > come out > and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper > standards. > Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs > standard. > Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. > > If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of > months to get > it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat > label on > the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling > the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what > is needed > for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and > the fees > involved ….) > > So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive > hits > the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of > actually > hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process > is > probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is > flashing. > > Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs > standard, ( without > all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications ) you may get into all > sorts of nonsense. > If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going > to get delivered. > If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably > is not going to get > returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it …. > > Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance > of it getting > noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at > that point > all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen. > > Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement …. > > Bob > > > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > Bobs > > Comments are on target. > > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other > > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. > > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may > not > > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt > to > > recover the tube. > > > > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. > The > > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. > > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading > out > > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the > > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact > > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam > > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. > The > > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another > > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. > > > > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes > > are pretty much dead. > > > > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam > > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. > > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. > > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is > > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago > when I > > picked up my 2nd 5061. > > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely > gets > > a discount we don't. > > > > Regards > > Paul > > WB8TSL > > > > > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > > > >> Hi > >> > >> > >> > >>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that > it's > >>> possible > >>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, > I'm > >>> terribly > >> > >> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before > >> you could do > >> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic > >> standard made by > >> anybody that does something like that. > >> > >> > >>> surprised and disappointed. > >>> > >>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until > it > >>> reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? > >> > >> > >> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I > have > >> indeed proven that > >> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A > “standard > >> grade” tube should > >> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model > tube > >> from what era and > >> who made the specific tube. > >> > >> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones > ( > >> = what we play with) > >> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. > They > >> may not all be made > >> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs > >> standards with dead > >> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out > of …. > >> > >> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I > did > >> that the bill was > >> about $38,000. That included them putting it in. > >> > >> Bob > >> > >>> > >>> Dana > >>> > >>> > >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi > >>>> > >>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in > the > >>>> tube. You can > >>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you > is > >>>> that the fuel > >>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. > >>>> > >>>> Bob > >>>> > >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi Doug > >>>>> > >>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and > >>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of > Doug > >>>> Millar > >>>>> via time-nuts > >>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 > >>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com > >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. > >> The > >>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since > >> then. > >>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not > >>>> tested it > >>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The > unit > >>>> is > >>>>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long > >> Beach, > >>>> CA. > >>>>> 90806 > >>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary > >>>> resistance > >>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very > >> reasonable. > >>>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to > >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ----- > >>>>> No virus found in this message. > >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >>>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: > >>>> 05/19/18 > >>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>>> and follow the instructions there. > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >>> and follow the instructions there. > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > >> and follow the instructions there. > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > > and follow the instructions there. > > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ > mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Thanks, Doug K6JEY

Bob Did go looking on the internet. I had quite a laugh because indeed our friends at Amazon and Ebay will happily sell you a 1 gram vile of Cesium. $226. By the way thats free shipping. Chuckle. No mention of shipping issues. Letting this part of the thread drop. Someone gets a nice reference if it works. Regards Paul On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 3:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > Bob > I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't. > There was a document from HP. But its been a long time. > I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way. > Just saying. Neither right or wrong. > > Regards > Paul > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. >> >> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and >> shipping >> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly >> reasons >> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a >> Cs >> standard falls into the hazardous category. >> >> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and >> certified >> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate >> with your >> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then >> come out >> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper >> standards. >> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs >> standard. >> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. >> >> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of >> months to get >> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat >> label on >> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling >> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what >> is needed >> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and >> the fees >> involved ….) >> >> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive >> hits >> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of >> actually >> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process >> is >> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign >> is flashing. >> >> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs >> standard, ( without >> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications ) you may get into all >> sorts of nonsense. >> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going >> to get delivered. >> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It >> probably is not going to get >> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it …. >> >> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance >> of it getting >> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at >> that point >> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen. >> >> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement …. >> >> Bob >> >> > On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: >> > >> > Bobs >> > Comments are on target. >> > The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other >> > stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. >> > This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may >> not >> > clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt >> to >> > recover the tube. >> > >> > In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. >> The >> > beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. >> > The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading >> out >> > like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the >> > noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact >> > Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam >> > current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. >> The >> > tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another >> > much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. >> > >> > The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes >> > are pretty much dead. >> > >> > As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam >> > current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. >> > So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. >> > Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is >> > asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago >> when I >> > picked up my 2nd 5061. >> > I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely >> gets >> > a discount we don't. >> > >> > Regards >> > Paul >> > WB8TSL >> > >> > >> > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >> > >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that >> it's >> >>> possible >> >>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, >> I'm >> >>> terribly >> >> >> >> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before >> >> you could do >> >> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic >> >> standard made by >> >> anybody that does something like that. >> >> >> >> >> >>> surprised and disappointed. >> >>> >> >>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run >> until it >> >>> reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? >> >> >> >> >> >> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I >> have >> >> indeed proven that >> >> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A >> “standard >> >> grade” tube should >> >> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model >> tube >> >> from what era and >> >> who made the specific tube. >> >> >> >> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older >> ones ( >> >> = what we play with) >> >> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. >> They >> >> may not all be made >> >> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs >> >> standards with dead >> >> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out >> of …. >> >> >> >> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I >> did >> >> that the bill was >> >> about $38,000. That included them putting it in. >> >> >> >> Bob >> >> >> >>> >> >>> Dana >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Hi >> >>>> >> >>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in >> the >> >>>> tube. You can >> >>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you >> is >> >>>> that the fuel >> >>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. >> >>>> >> >>>> Bob >> >>>> >> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi Doug >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and >> >>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul >> >>>>> >> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >> >>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Doug >> >>>> Millar >> >>>>> via time-nuts >> >>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 >> >>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >> >>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and >> manual. >> >> The >> >>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since >> >> then. >> >>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not >> >>>> tested it >> >>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The >> unit >> >>>> is >> >>>>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long >> >> Beach, >> >>>> CA. >> >>>>> 90806 >> >>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary >> >>>> resistance >> >>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very >> >> reasonable. >> >>>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >> >>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ----- >> >>>>> No virus found in this message. >> >>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> >>>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: >> >>>> 05/19/18 >> >>>>> >> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >> >>>> >> >>>> _______________________________________________ >> >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >>>> and follow the instructions there. >> >>>> >> >>> _______________________________________________ >> >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> >> and follow the instructions there. >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> > and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/m >> ailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > >

Thanks, Doug K6JEY

Paul, Cesium 133 is a stable isotope in terms of nuclear decay, but it is still an alkali metal and as such needs to be properly handled. Cesium combined with water forms a very strong base which etches glass for instance. Then the amounts of it and how hard to get to it is another things. It's safer in a cesium tube than in a glass ampule, but you can make both safe in transport. Cheers, Magnus On 05/19/2018 09:49 PM, paul swed wrote: > Bob > I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't. > There was a document from HP. But its been a long time. > I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way. > Just saying. Neither right or wrong. > > Regards > Paul > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. >> >> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and >> shipping >> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly >> reasons >> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a >> Cs >> standard falls into the hazardous category. >> >> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and >> certified >> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate >> with your >> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then >> come out >> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper >> standards. >> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs >> standard. >> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. >> >> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of >> months to get >> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat >> label on >> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling >> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what >> is needed >> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and >> the fees >> involved ….) >> >> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive >> hits >> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of >> actually >> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process >> is >> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is >> flashing. >> >> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs >> standard, ( without >> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications ) you may get into all >> sorts of nonsense. >> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going >> to get delivered. >> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably >> is not going to get >> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it …. >> >> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance >> of it getting >> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at >> that point >> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen. >> >> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Bobs >>> Comments are on target. >>> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other >>> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. >>> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may >> not >>> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt >> to >>> recover the tube. >>> >>> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. >> The >>> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. >>> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading >> out >>> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the >>> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact >>> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam >>> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. >> The >>> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another >>> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. >>> >>> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes >>> are pretty much dead. >>> >>> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam >>> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. >>> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. >>> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is >>> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago >> when I >>> picked up my 2nd 5061. >>> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely >> gets >>> a discount we don't. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that >> it's >>>>> possible >>>>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, >> I'm >>>>> terribly >>>> >>>> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before >>>> you could do >>>> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic >>>> standard made by >>>> anybody that does something like that. >>>> >>>> >>>>> surprised and disappointed. >>>>> >>>>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until >> it >>>>> reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? >>>> >>>> >>>> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I >> have >>>> indeed proven that >>>> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A >> “standard >>>> grade” tube should >>>> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model >> tube >>>> from what era and >>>> who made the specific tube. >>>> >>>> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones >> ( >>>> = what we play with) >>>> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. >> They >>>> may not all be made >>>> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs >>>> standards with dead >>>> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out >> of …. >>>> >>>> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I >> did >>>> that the bill was >>>> about $38,000. That included them putting it in. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dana >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in >> the >>>>>> tube. You can >>>>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you >> is >>>>>> that the fuel >>>>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Doug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and >>>>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Doug >>>>>> Millar >>>>>>> via time-nuts >>>>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 >>>>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. >>>> The >>>>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since >>>> then. >>>>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not >>>>>> tested it >>>>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The >> unit >>>>>> is >>>>>>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long >>>> Beach, >>>>>> CA. >>>>>>> 90806 >>>>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary >>>>>> resistance >>>>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very >>>> reasonable. >>>>>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: >>>>>> 05/19/18 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. >

Hi Well I *can* say that when you ship a 5071 back to be re-tubed, you *do* run into the Cs shipping rule. HP did a bunch of stuff to demonstrate that there was near zero chance of a problem. Ultimately it had zero impact on how the rules were written. I’m by no means trying to tell people not to ship Cs standards. I just want them to be aware of what the might run into. It’s not the risk from the Cs that is the issue to me ….. Bob > On May 19, 2018, at 3:49 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: > > Bob > I believe that the Cesium 133 as I recall actually isn't. > There was a document from HP. But its been a long time. > I will bet folks ship the 5061s all the time without a thought either way. > Just saying. Neither right or wrong. > > Regards > Paul > > On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 2:18 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: > >> Hi >> >> Ok …. errr …. shipping …. about that. >> >> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and >> shipping >> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly >> reasons >> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a >> Cs >> standard falls into the hazardous category. >> >> So, to properly ship a Cs standard, you need to be properly trained and >> certified >> as a Hazmat shipper. You then need to register that training certificate >> with your >> favorite shipper and verify that they accept the certificate. They then >> come out >> and check your paperwork system to be sure it’s up to the proper >> standards. >> Once all that is accomplished you can originate a shipment of a Cs >> standard. >> Yes, there are a couple of fees involved in all that. >> >> If all that sounds trivial or easy …. it’s not. Figure on a coupe of >> months to get >> it all done. Once you do get it all done you can put a nice big Hazmat >> label on >> the package and ship it out ( with of course an added charge for handling >> the rest of the process ). If you do it once you at least will know what >> is needed >> for the annual renewal of certification and re-inspection process. ( and >> the fees >> involved ….) >> >> So ….errrr …. yes. The bottom line is that even if a railroad locomotive >> hits >> the UPS truck, you aren’t going to get Cs all over the place. The risk of >> actually >> hurting anybody with Cs is essentially zero. This whole shipping process >> is >> probably not as risky as crossing the street when the “don’t walk” sign is >> flashing. >> >> Be aware though that if you are shipping one and label it as a Cs >> standard, ( without >> all the proper Hazmat shipping certifications ) you may get into all >> sorts of nonsense. >> If somebody spots it ( and that has happened ) your package is not going >> to get delivered. >> If it is in transit when noticed ( = they already accepted it) It probably >> is not going to get >> returned to you. I’d bet you at least get a bill for disposing of it …. >> >> Equally if you ship one and don’t do it properly there is a slight chance >> of it getting >> noticed ( think in terms of a damaged box that gets attended to ) …. at >> that point >> all sorts of nasty legal sorts of things could happen. >> >> Just another of life’s little pieces of excitement …. >> >> Bob >> >>> On May 19, 2018, at 1:36 PM, paul swed <paulswedb@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Bobs >>> Comments are on target. >>> The Cesium can last a long time on the shelf. But (Always a but) other >>> stuff in the tube tends to pollute the tube. >>> This causes the high current when you start the system that may or may >> not >>> clear up.Some great time-nuts threads on the subject and how to attempt >> to >>> recover the tube. >>> >>> In my experience after the tubes up and running and in a locked state. >> The >>> beam current is relative. About 20-40 is good. >>> The issue is there are some settings that can totally fake this reading >> out >>> like the meter sensitivity. As the current goes down you see more of the >>> noise floor of the system that deteriorates the quality. Funny fact >>> Frankenstein 5060/61 mix has barely originally showed .5 on the beam >>> current. Yet still locks. Today beam current is 0 and its still locks. >> The >>> tube was deemed dead when it was given to me. In comparing it to another >>> much later 5061 it is indeed locked nicely. >>> >>> The option 004 tubes run hot and consume Cs more rapidly. Dead 004 tubes >>> are pretty much dead. >>> >>> As I recall in the manual there is a way to directly read the true beam >>> current (If you actually have any) right off the tube. >>> So some lucky sole in this tread will finally have a real ticking clock. >>> Congrats and have fun. I think the darn clocks go for as much as Doug is >>> asking. Shipping was about $130 or so from Az to Ma about a year ago >> when I >>> picked up my 2nd 5061. >>> I think this is a bit cheap as it came from a company that most likely >> gets >>> a discount we don't. >>> >>> Regards >>> Paul >>> WB8TSL >>> >>> >>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 1:02 PM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 11:22 AM, Dana Whitlow <k8yumdoober@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Don't Cesium clocks have a beam current integrator of sorts so that >> it's >>>>> possible >>>>> to pretty accurately assess the remaining life of the tube? If not, >> I'm >>>>> terribly >>>> >>>> Simple answer - no. The ones we are playing with came out *long* before >>>> you could do >>>> anything like that in a practical way. Even today I know of no atomic >>>> standard made by >>>> anybody that does something like that. >>>> >>>> >>>>> surprised and disappointed. >>>>> >>>>> Also, beginning with a new tube, roughly how long can one be run until >> it >>>>> reaches exhaustion? Are we speaking months, years, decades, or what? >>>> >>>> >>>> Rated life on a high performance tube is in the 5 to 7 year range. I >> have >>>> indeed proven that >>>> to be correct with a couple of tubes run on a 24/7/365 basis. A >> “standard >>>> grade” tube should >>>> run for 2 or 3 times that long. A lot depends on exactly which model >> tube >>>> from what era and >>>> who made the specific tube. >>>> >>>> Tubes are not the only thing that dies in a Cs standard. The older ones >> ( >>>> = what we play with) >>>> are mostly full of leaded parts described in manuals and schematics. >> They >>>> may not all be made >>>> anymore, but various substitutes are out there. Also, chassis for Cs >>>> standards with dead >>>> tubes are pretty common. It’s the tubes we are most likely to run out >> of …. >>>> >>>> Of course you *can* get a nice new tube from the factory. Last time I >> did >>>> that the bill was >>>> about $38,000. That included them putting it in. >>>> >>>> Bob >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Dana >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, May 19, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Bob kb8tq <kb8tq@n1k.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi >>>>>> >>>>>> Unfortunately there really is no way to tell how much Cs is left in >> the >>>>>> tube. You can >>>>>> look at beam current and make a guess. All that really will tell you >> is >>>>>> that the fuel >>>>>> gauge is on empty or at least just off of empty. >>>>>> >>>>>> Bob >>>>>> >>>>>>> On May 19, 2018, at 2:30 AM, Paul Bicknell <paul@bicknells.f2s.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Doug >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is it possible to test its operation and >>>>>>> can the time left on the cesium be calculated Regards Paul >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: time-nuts [mailto:time-nuts-bounces@febo.com] On Behalf Of >> Doug >>>>>> Millar >>>>>>> via time-nuts >>>>>>> Sent: 19 May 2018 05:04 >>>>>>> To: time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> Subject: [time-nuts] Cesium Clock Avialable >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. >>>> The >>>>>>> unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since >>>> then. >>>>>>> There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have not >>>>>> tested it >>>>>>> recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the front. The >> unit >>>>>> is >>>>>>> in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus shipping from Long >>>> Beach, >>>>>> CA. >>>>>>> 90806 >>>>>>> I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary >>>>>> resistance >>>>>>> standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. Very >>>> reasonable. >>>>>>> Thanks, Doug K6JEY >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to >>>>>>> https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>> No virus found in this message. >>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>>>>>> Version: 2016.0.8048 / Virus Database: 4793/15670 - Release Date: >>>>>> 05/19/18 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >>>> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>>> and follow the instructions there. >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >>> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >>> and follow the instructions there. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com >> To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/ >> mailman/listinfo/time-nuts >> and follow the instructions there. >> > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there.

-------- In message <B17ED93D-0178-456F-B448-A93697E44F10@n1k.org>, Bob kb8tq writes: >Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and shipping >hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly reasons >the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a Cs >standard falls into the hazardous category. The reason for this is actually not very silly. Very potent Cs137 sources are used in borehole characterization in disturbingly high numbers, and they are licensed and tracked by the relevant national regulatory agency, NRC.gov in the USA. The HAZMAT regulations used to be different for Cs137 (nuclear concerns) and Cs133 (chemical concerns) but smartasses in the oil industry discovered lower costs if they "couldn't remember the number". I belive HP used to have an exemption for shipping factory new CS-tubes *from* their factory, but not for shipping new or used tubes *to* their factory, because customers could not be trusted to pack according to spec. -- Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Hi Doug. Did not see my email go by. Would like to have the cs standard. I'm visiting my family in Huntington Beach and can pick it up so no packing. Have cash. Off list at djl at Montana dot com Thanks Don AJ7LL On 2018-05-18 22:04, Doug Millar via time-nuts wrote: > Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. > The unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since > then. There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have > not tested it recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the > front. The unit is in great physical condition.  Asking $600 plus > shipping from Long Beach, CA. 90806 > I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary > resistance standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. > Very reasonable. >      Thanks, Doug K6JEY > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to > https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. -- Dr. Don Latham PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834 VOX: 406-626-4304

Hi At least these days, a 5071 comes back from the factory with the same Hazmat labels on it as it ships into their factory with. Bob > On May 19, 2018, at 4:43 PM, Poul-Henning Kamp <phk@phk.freebsd.dk> wrote: > > -------- > In message <B17ED93D-0178-456F-B448-A93697E44F10@n1k.org>, Bob kb8tq writes: > >> Cs is classified rightly as a hazardous substance. Transporting and shipping >> hazardous stuff is indeed regulated (as it should be). For various silly reasons >> the minute amount of Cs inside a virtually indestructible container in a Cs >> standard falls into the hazardous category. > > The reason for this is actually not very silly. > > Very potent Cs137 sources are used in borehole characterization in > disturbingly high numbers, and they are licensed and tracked by the > relevant national regulatory agency, NRC.gov in the USA. > > The HAZMAT regulations used to be different for Cs137 (nuclear > concerns) and Cs133 (chemical concerns) but smartasses in the oil > industry discovered lower costs if they "couldn't remember the > number". > > I belive HP used to have an exemption for shipping factory new > CS-tubes *from* their factory, but not for shipping new or used > tubes *to* their factory, because customers could not be trusted > to pack according to spec. > > -- > Poul-Henning Kamp | UNIX since Zilog Zeus 3.20 > phk@FreeBSD.ORG | TCP/IP since RFC 956 > FreeBSD committer | BSD since 4.3-tahoe > Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by incompetence.

Assuming the seals are good, i imagine that a few weeks of ion pump time would put the tube into ‘ready to use’ condition as recall the tube components have been outgassing for the better part of two decades. Content by Scott Typos by Siri On May 19, 2018, at 9:11 AM, djl <djl@montana.com> wrote: Hi Doug I'm visiting just down the coast and could pick up the HP. If not sold I'll take it. Don AJ7LL > On 2018-05-18 22:04, Doug Millar via time-nuts wrote: > Hi, I am willing to part with my HP 5061A cesium standard and manual. > The unit was rebuilt and functioning some years ago and not used since > then. There is usable cesium in the tube and the unit worked. I have > not tested it recently. It has a Patek-Philippe analogue clock in the > front. The unit is in great physical condition. Asking $600 plus > shipping from Long Beach, CA. 90806 > I also have an ESI 242D resistance calibrator and a Julie primary > resistance standard in an oven. Let me know if you are interested. > Very reasonable. > Thanks, Doug K6JEY > _______________________________________________ > time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com > To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts > and follow the instructions there. -- Dr. Don Latham PO Box 404, Frenchtown, MT, 59834 VOX: 406-626-4304 _______________________________________________ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the instructions there.