Empathy List Archives

MM

Mike Maurice

Wed, Jan 12, 2005 12:58 AM

I had a long talk with an acquaintance over the weekend about get home
engines, versus twins, versus singles.
Considering the cost of a wing engine, I conclude that one would be better
off with a heavier duty single with redundant accessories.

I suggest that it is an amateur notion that for the same amount of expense
that the wing engine is the better investment.
Small engines with small shafts outboard of the centerline are vulnerable
and weak. I am sympathetic to the get home concept, but would rather have
the main working than any wing engine filling in.
I am suspicious that the wing engine leads to complacency about maintenance
of the main engine. This complacency is subtle and may be a problem even
for owners who are nominally pretty rigorous about maintenance.

You can buy a heck of a lot of spare parts, spares kits, tools and pre
installed parts for the price of a wing engine with shaft, transmission,
propeller, strut and all of it's combined maintenance. The wing engine
requires less thought and experience and in a sense is a no brainer.
But...well, you've heard by observations.

Mike

Capt. Mike Maurice
Tualatin(Portland), Oregon

I had a long talk with an acquaintance over the weekend about get home engines, versus twins, versus singles. Considering the cost of a wing engine, I conclude that one would be better off with a heavier duty single with redundant accessories. I suggest that it is an amateur notion that for the same amount of expense that the wing engine is the better investment. Small engines with small shafts outboard of the centerline are vulnerable and weak. I am sympathetic to the get home concept, but would rather have the main working than any wing engine filling in. I am suspicious that the wing engine leads to complacency about maintenance of the main engine. This complacency is subtle and may be a problem even for owners who are nominally pretty rigorous about maintenance. You can buy a heck of a lot of spare parts, spares kits, tools and pre installed parts for the price of a wing engine with shaft, transmission, propeller, strut and all of it's combined maintenance. The wing engine requires less thought and experience and in a sense is a no brainer. But...well, you've heard by observations. Mike Capt. Mike Maurice Tualatin(Portland), Oregon

SD

Steven Dubnoff

Wed, Jan 12, 2005 1:23 AM

You can buy a heck of a lot of spare parts, spares kits, tools and pre
installed parts for the price of a wing engine with shaft, transmission,
propeller, strut and all of it's combined maintenance. The wing engine
requires less thought and experience and in a sense is a no brainer.
But...well, you've heard by observations.

I was aboard a Krogen last summer that had what I think is an ideal
solution. It had a small, about sixty HP, engine that was mounted facing
forward above the shaft behind the main engine. It was routinely used to
drive a very large alternator that charged the batteries.

It also had a rig by which a chain could be attached to drive the main
shaft in an emergency (I think it also had a reverse gear). Unlike the
usual wing engine, it was regularly exercised and maintained, so it was
likely to start in an emergency. The owner said the chain could be
attached to shaft in about fifteen minutes or so.

Seems like a good compromise to me.

Best,

Steve

Steve Dubnoff
1966 Willard 47' Dover Pilothouse
sdubnoff@circlesys.com

> >You can buy a heck of a lot of spare parts, spares kits, tools and pre >installed parts for the price of a wing engine with shaft, transmission, >propeller, strut and all of it's combined maintenance. The wing engine >requires less thought and experience and in a sense is a no brainer. >But...well, you've heard by observations. I was aboard a Krogen last summer that had what I think is an ideal solution. It had a small, about sixty HP, engine that was mounted facing forward above the shaft behind the main engine. It was routinely used to drive a very large alternator that charged the batteries. It also had a rig by which a chain could be attached to drive the main shaft in an emergency (I think it also had a reverse gear). Unlike the usual wing engine, it was regularly exercised and maintained, so it was likely to start in an emergency. The owner said the chain could be attached to shaft in about fifteen minutes or so. Seems like a good compromise to me. Best, Steve Steve Dubnoff 1966 Willard 47' Dover Pilothouse sdubnoff@circlesys.com

JH

John Harris

Wed, Jan 12, 2005 1:29 AM

I think Mike makes a good point about a wing engine or deletion of same and
spend a little of the savings on spare parts. (And - yes - I do have a wing
engine - and yes, I have used it)

The one thing I would add to Mike's thoughts is a sea anchor, so that if the
main engine stops working and needs some service I can nearly stand still
and be in a relatively comfortable orientation (i.e. roughly bow to the wind
not beam to the wind) while I do the needed repair.

John Harris

I think Mike makes a good point about a wing engine or deletion of same and spend a little of the savings on spare parts. (And - yes - I do have a wing engine - and yes, I have used it) The one thing I would add to Mike's thoughts is a sea anchor, so that if the main engine stops working and needs some service I can nearly stand still and be in a relatively comfortable orientation (i.e. roughly bow to the wind not beam to the wind) while I do the needed repair. John Harris

VC

Valerie Creighton, D.V.M.

Wed, Jan 12, 2005 2:09 AM

A perpetual lurker (and perhaps other inquiring minds out there) would like
to know:

-----Original Message-----

(And - yes - I do
have a wing
engine - and yes, I have used it)

So John, do tell! And also, how would you have handled your situation if you
had NOT had that wing engine?

Valerie Creighton
Selene 53' on order

A perpetual lurker (and perhaps other inquiring minds out there) would like to know: > -----Original Message----- > (And - yes - I do > have a wing > engine - and yes, I have used it) So John, do tell! And also, how would you have handled your situation if you had NOT had that wing engine? Valerie Creighton Selene 53' on order

JH

John Harris

Wed, Jan 12, 2005 5:34 AM

RE: And also, how would you have handled your situation if you
had NOT had that wing engine?

I thought it was clear that my choice without a wing engine would be to set
the sea anchor.

John

RE: And also, how would you have handled your situation if you had NOT had that wing engine? I thought it was clear that my choice without a wing engine would be to set the sea anchor. John

K

Keith

Wed, Jan 12, 2005 12:08 PM

Like others have said, all the spare parts in the world won't help you with
a catastrophic failure, or something wrong with the prop, tranny or shaft. I
feel that a completely separate get home system is a necessity for
passagemaking, whether it be power or a sail. I like the wing engine setup.

I think it was on another list... someone had the idea to set up an electric
wing engine. Something that you could drive off your genset. Not much
specifics, but it would make sense to me at least in theory to have an
electric motor with it's own shaft and prop that could be run off the genset
as a get-home arrangement. Comments? Anyone ever heard of this being done
before?

Keith
__
Death to all fanatics!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Maurice" mikem@yachtsdelivered.com

I had a long talk with an acquaintance over the weekend about get home
engines, versus twins, versus singles.
Considering the cost of a wing engine, I conclude that one would be better
off with a heavier duty single with redundant accessories.

Like others have said, all the spare parts in the world won't help you with a catastrophic failure, or something wrong with the prop, tranny or shaft. I feel that a completely separate get home system is a necessity for passagemaking, whether it be power or a sail. I like the wing engine setup. I think it was on another list... someone had the idea to set up an electric wing engine. Something that you could drive off your genset. Not much specifics, but it would make sense to me at least in theory to have an electric motor with it's own shaft and prop that could be run off the genset as a get-home arrangement. Comments? Anyone ever heard of this being done before? Keith __ Death to all fanatics! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Maurice" <mikem@yachtsdelivered.com> >I had a long talk with an acquaintance over the weekend about get home >engines, versus twins, versus singles. > Considering the cost of a wing engine, I conclude that one would be better > off with a heavier duty single with redundant accessories.

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Get Home Engines, etc.