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"Rescue Deposit" (long post)

BA
Bob Austin
Fri, Sep 23, 2005 6:00 PM

It is a degree of risk and the degree of necessity of rescue.  I don't think
that one can compare an open ocean passage with that across the artic.

As noted previously well prepared voyagers of an ocean have a minimal risk
of requiring rescue.  The mini Transat is a group of  about seventy five, 21
foot sailboats which cross the Atlantic single handed every other year.
Some years there are  rescues and some years there are none. I lost a friend
in this race in the early 80's, presumably run down by a freighter. (Very
experienced and well known yachtsman, Patrick Van God) We had discussed the
dangers and he had no intent of calling for help. As Robby notes every other
year a number of small sail boats cross from California to Hawaii single
handed--in reasonable safety.  When many of us began sailing, there were no
GPS, no EPIRB and most of us had no long range radio--and we accepted that
if things went bad, we had to get out of it ourselves, or suffer the
consiquences.

Robby is also correct that England, and most of the European countries
licsence both yachtsmen and boats as to what types of voyages they are
"allowed" to take..  I am strongly opposed to this type of restrictions--but
what I am also opposed to is people making voyages (or any adventure) and
expecting to be bailed out if things go wrong.  This certainly does happen.
It happens along the coast frequently--thus the proliferation of "sea tow"
type of services.  But in these cases a boater pays a fee (about $100 a
year) as insurance that they will be towed or given some rescue services.

As you read Fine Tolerance's posts on the web site, they were prepared for
being iced in for one winter--and did endure that.  I wonder if they would
have been up to a second year?--or if they had the suplies?  An interesting
note in their first post--was that the natives considered any vessel left
without a person aboard abandoned, and will strip it.  So leaving the boat
is not much of a choice--if you have a way to get out--and if you are not
willing to sacrifice the vessel.  I note that at least boat has been in the
artic for at least 2 winters now and apparently still not made it  across
the passage.

I do not condone "rescue deposits".  I have worked with long distance
voyagers for many years--primarly putting together medical kits.  Part of
the "deal" was that I sent some time with the people and their boats to
review the realism of their plans.  In several cases I persuaded the
voyagers to take another year to learn how to sail and navigate, or to
modify their boat.  I never told anyone that they should not take the
voyage, but I did review self relience. (This includes a teen ager sailing
to Hawaii in a 15 footer).

As many others, I grew up reading and dreaming of voyaging.  I had a little
different perspective, since I was privleged to spend time with the likes of
Harry Pigdeon (second man to solo circumnavigate and first to twice solo
circumnavigate and John Caldwell (Despirate Voyage--sailing from Panama to
Australia, back to US, and then around to the Caribbean)--Larry and Faith
Baldwin  and other founders of Seven Seas Sailing Association.--all of whom
had boats either next to or near my fathers boat in the mid to late 1940's
to 50's.  I developed my philosophy from these early encounters--that there
were risks, but that you would not expect anyone else to put their life or
resources in danger to help you.  May be a bit old fashioned in todays world
of buying a boat, GPS and EPIRB and going!

I personally would not single hand across an ocean--the personal risk is too
high for me.  I have single handed a number of short voyages and found that
the fatigue combined with lack of sleep leads to hallucinations and poor
judgement.  At sea a good single hander can over come these to some extent.
The chance of being rundown by a large vessel are significant.--but in that
case, probably no rescue will occur since the large vessel will not realize
it struck the small boat.  I have lost several other friends this way.  I
would not attempt an artic transit--I personally feel the risk of making it
without calling for help are too large. There is only a day or two window of
possibility of an opening--if at all.  However this is a personal
philosophy.

No further government involvement in the rights of boaters!

Bob Austin

It is a degree of risk and the degree of necessity of rescue. I don't think that one can compare an open ocean passage with that across the artic. As noted previously well prepared voyagers of an ocean have a minimal risk of requiring rescue. The mini Transat is a group of about seventy five, 21 foot sailboats which cross the Atlantic single handed every other year. Some years there are rescues and some years there are none. I lost a friend in this race in the early 80's, presumably run down by a freighter. (Very experienced and well known yachtsman, Patrick Van God) We had discussed the dangers and he had no intent of calling for help. As Robby notes every other year a number of small sail boats cross from California to Hawaii single handed--in reasonable safety. When many of us began sailing, there were no GPS, no EPIRB and most of us had no long range radio--and we accepted that if things went bad, we had to get out of it ourselves, or suffer the consiquences. Robby is also correct that England, and most of the European countries licsence both yachtsmen and boats as to what types of voyages they are "allowed" to take.. I am strongly opposed to this type of restrictions--but what I am also opposed to is people making voyages (or any adventure) and expecting to be bailed out if things go wrong. This certainly does happen. It happens along the coast frequently--thus the proliferation of "sea tow" type of services. But in these cases a boater pays a fee (about $100 a year) as insurance that they will be towed or given some rescue services. As you read Fine Tolerance's posts on the web site, they were prepared for being iced in for one winter--and did endure that. I wonder if they would have been up to a second year?--or if they had the suplies? An interesting note in their first post--was that the natives considered any vessel left without a person aboard abandoned, and will strip it. So leaving the boat is not much of a choice--if you have a way to get out--and if you are not willing to sacrifice the vessel. I note that at least boat has been in the artic for at least 2 winters now and apparently still not made it across the passage. I do not condone "rescue deposits". I have worked with long distance voyagers for many years--primarly putting together medical kits. Part of the "deal" was that I sent some time with the people and their boats to review the realism of their plans. In several cases I persuaded the voyagers to take another year to learn how to sail and navigate, or to modify their boat. I never told anyone that they should not take the voyage, but I did review self relience. (This includes a teen ager sailing to Hawaii in a 15 footer). As many others, I grew up reading and dreaming of voyaging. I had a little different perspective, since I was privleged to spend time with the likes of Harry Pigdeon (second man to solo circumnavigate and first to twice solo circumnavigate and John Caldwell (Despirate Voyage--sailing from Panama to Australia, back to US, and then around to the Caribbean)--Larry and Faith Baldwin and other founders of Seven Seas Sailing Association.--all of whom had boats either next to or near my fathers boat in the mid to late 1940's to 50's. I developed my philosophy from these early encounters--that there were risks, but that you would not expect anyone else to put their life or resources in danger to help you. May be a bit old fashioned in todays world of buying a boat, GPS and EPIRB and going! I personally would not single hand across an ocean--the personal risk is too high for me. I have single handed a number of short voyages and found that the fatigue combined with lack of sleep leads to hallucinations and poor judgement. At sea a good single hander can over come these to some extent. The chance of being rundown by a large vessel are significant.--but in that case, probably no rescue will occur since the large vessel will not realize it struck the small boat. I have lost several other friends this way. I would not attempt an artic transit--I personally feel the risk of making it without calling for help are too large. There is only a day or two window of possibility of an opening--if at all. However this is a personal philosophy. No further government involvement in the rights of boaters! Bob Austin
MP
Mike P
Fri, Sep 23, 2005 10:28 PM

I have to admit that I think there is value even in the absurd and
reckless activities of adventurers.  At VERY least they clean out the
gene pool (that's worth a little government tax money!)...at best
they inspire, help us 'think outside the box', and perhaps even help
us discover something new in our world or in ourselves.

Mike Pate

I have to admit that I think there is value even in the absurd and reckless activities of adventurers. At VERY least they clean out the gene pool (that's worth a little government tax money!)...at best they inspire, help us 'think outside the box', and perhaps even help us discover something new in our world or in ourselves. Mike Pate
RR
Rick Redfern
Fri, Sep 23, 2005 10:40 PM

--- Mike P positivepate@verizon.net wrote:

I have to admit that I think there is value even in
the absurd and
reckless activities of adventurers.  At VERY least
they clean out the
gene pool (that's worth a little government tax
money!)...at best
they inspire, help us 'think outside the box', and
perhaps even help
us discover something new in our world or in
ourselves.

Mike Pate

Mike:

I will find the site about the gene pool.
It is hilarious when you read about some of the
experiences of those who thankfully have left
the gene pool. Especially the moron in San Jose who
during an argument with his girlfriend decided
to smash her windshield with the stock end of his
shot gun while holding the end of the of the
barrel. Yep, he exited the gene pool.

Rick Redfern

--- Mike P <positivepate@verizon.net> wrote: > I have to admit that I think there is value even in > the absurd and > reckless activities of adventurers. At VERY least > they clean out the > gene pool (that's worth a little government tax > money!)...at best > they inspire, help us 'think outside the box', and > perhaps even help > us discover something new in our world or in > ourselves. > > Mike Pate > > Mike: I will find the site about the gene pool. It is hilarious when you read about some of the experiences of those who thankfully have left the gene pool. Especially the moron in San Jose who during an argument with his girlfriend decided to smash her windshield with the stock end of his shot gun while holding the end of the of the barrel. Yep, he exited the gene pool. Rick Redfern
MP
Mike P
Fri, Sep 23, 2005 10:53 PM

See Rick, the Bible was right after all..."All things DO work
together for good..."

Mike
On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Rick Redfern wrote:

Mike:

I will find the site about the gene pool.
It is hilarious when you read about some of the
experiences of those who thankfully have left
the gene pool. Especially the moron in San Jose who
during an argument with his girlfriend decided
to smash her windshield with the stock end of his
shot gun while holding the end of the of the
barrel. Yep, he exited the gene pool.

Rick Redfern


Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List

See Rick, the Bible was right after all..."All things DO work together for good..." Mike On Sep 23, 2005, at 3:40 PM, Rick Redfern wrote: > Mike: > > I will find the site about the gene pool. > It is hilarious when you read about some of the > experiences of those who thankfully have left > the gene pool. Especially the moron in San Jose who > during an argument with his girlfriend decided > to smash her windshield with the stock end of his > shot gun while holding the end of the of the > barrel. Yep, he exited the gene pool. > > Rick Redfern > _______________________________________________ > Passagemaking-Under-Power Mailing List >
RR
Ron Rogers
Fri, Sep 23, 2005 11:59 PM

Isn't that the Darwin Award site?
Ron Rogers

Isn't that the Darwin Award site? Ron Rogers
RR
Rick Redfern
Sat, Sep 24, 2005 12:35 AM

--- Mike P positivepate@verizon.net wrote:

See Rick, the Bible was right after all..."All
things DO work
together for good..."

Mike

Mike:
Here is the site:
http://www.darwinawards.com/
Enjoy and let me know how much laughter
this gave you. No need to respond.

Rick Redfern

--- Mike P <positivepate@verizon.net> wrote: > See Rick, the Bible was right after all..."All > things DO work > together for good..." > > Mike > Mike: Here is the site: http://www.darwinawards.com/ Enjoy and let me know how much laughter this gave you. No need to respond. Rick Redfern