The $80K number is actual for cruising on my Nordhavn 55 in the PNW. The $120K for the same boat on east coast is my estimate based on higher marina fees, higher insurance, more expensive fuel, etc. And that $80K is bare bones on a new boat (with no loan) and with very little maintenance required. I suppose if you never eat off the boat and never dock it and never go anywhere off the boat, you could spend a bit less. But we travel to see family from time to time, etc. For me, slip fees are about $10K, insurance is $8K and fuel is about $8K a year and routine maintenance is about $7K a year. Thats on a 55 foot boat with a value of about $1.5M and less than two years old and just off warranty. So you can see that I'm in the 30's before I even consider normal living expenses, food, entertainment, medical insurance/costs, travel, rental cars, etc. Plus with a 50-60 foot boat, you should set setting another $10K aside a year for big, non- reaccuring maintenance. There are other variables like whether you have scuba gear and clean your own bottom (a monthly affair in the south) or hire somebody. That's a big job on a 50-60 foot boat. Same goes for the twice a year wax job. Do it yourself or pay someone $3K - 6K a year to do it. But waxing and externally detailing one of these big boats takes about 50 man hours. Most of these costs reduce by at least a third, possibly half, if you are looking at a 40' boat that's in the half a million dollar valuation range (which greatly reduces slip fees, insurance and fuel, also to some degree maintenance). Sailboat in the 30-40' range is probably two-thirds cheaper. When you say under $40K for "boat related", I'm not sure what you are excluding from that. I'm looking at $80 as a live-aboard total cost perspective (no loan), and bare bones at that, in a cheap insurance and moorage market. John > Message: 8 > Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 08:39:22 EDT > From: Highlan875@aol.com > To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com > Subject: T&T: Subject: live aboard costs? > Message-ID: <bf6.32b2b2c6.376ce0fa@aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Dear John Marshall: > > Your comments below, are they your estimates or your actual > experience? > > I'm a financial planner and have worked with boat owners who have > taken > their boats on extended cruising (1-5 years). Only one had to tap > into his > capital to maintain his boating lifestyle. Mainly because he had > older teen > children who needed financial help during his cruising years. We > specialize > in a TIM process. Time, Income and Mobility financial planning > process so > your financial numbers are some of the highest we have seen when > the boat > owners are doing boating on their own without crew. We have > calculated a > $40,000 mean for planning purposes with 40% below that mean and 40% > higher than > that mean income base. We have the boat boat owners go back to their > maintenance logs and sort their ongoing yearly maintenance, then > their upgrades > and material and labor costs that might be needed to get their boat > up to > renewable maintenance costs. If the boat owner is new with a new > boat or > used we ask them to go back to the previous owner to collect these > numbers. We > have noticed a common mistake is the boat buyer pays for a boat that > he > has calculated the renewable annual maintenance on but the boat > needs material > and labor to bring it UP to a maintenance or upgrade level (IE boat > purchased lacks a chain anchor or dingy when owners intend to > anchor out). This > adds to the costs of the boat and generally reflects in a short fall > somewhere in the renewable maintenance costs. This can be a > financial spiral > downward. So we take time to divide the two areas of costs carefully > illustrating to the overly optimist eyes of the boat owner. > We are also boat owners and have seen treads developing. First > conscious > fuel consumption issues are a main consideration now. > Moorings seem to be increasing as marina costs continue to increase. > Utility costs in foreign countries can be inadequate and very > expensive. This > tread seems to be escalating at 9-10% a year. > Here are parameters we see in making our projections and TIM > financial > process. > > > Parameters > > - Semi retired/retired. Dreamed of living on a boat > - Lots of boating experience, but not really. (day cruises on smaller > planning hulled boats) > - Likes to tinker. Willing to do many small repairs themselves > - Needs to sell home, or downsize to buy their trawler. It's a > material > part of their life. Not just an idle purchase. > - Roughly $300,000 to spend on a boat > - Annual budget for living, maintenance, everything boat related > under > $40,000 > > > > Attributes for our ideal boat > Take 100 points, and spread them around, according to what > percentage of the buy decision is based on this feature. > > - Safety (20%) > - Range (5%) > - Fuel Efficiency (15%) > - Ease of Operation/maintenance (15%) > - Cost of maintenance (10%) > - Reliability (20%) > - Comfort (10%) > - Speed (5%) > > > > > > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 00:15:52 -0800 > From: John Marshall <johnamar@mac.com> > To: trawlers-and-trawlering@lists.samurai.com > Subject: T&T: live aboard costs? > Message-ID: <86ECAB14-1FAD-453D-B442-DF2A4946B9C2@mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > In the PNW (where I am, and can judge costs), with a newer boat that > you paid cash for and the ability to do most of your own maintenance, > you might be able to get by with $80K a year if you were really > careful and only took winter moorage (stayed out on the hook from May > to October--most marinas open their transient slips to winter > liveaboards for modest rates). The problem is the 50 to 60 foot > range, > which pushes fuel cost, maintenance and especially slip fees a lot > higher, and makes it much harder to find a slip. And even with my > estimate above, I'm assuming you would base the boat out of one of > the > more remote harbors in the winter (lower cost) and not down near > Seattle. > > On the east coast and Caribbean where you expressed an interest, I'm > guessing you'd need closer to $120K to truly use the boat properly. > Everything is more expensive, with slip fees about 3x that of the > PNW. > > If you really need to stay down in the $40K range, you need to > consider a much smaller boat. > > One of the biggest problems that kills the dream is not being > realistic about the costs, and/or buying more boat than you can > afford > to operate. Even worse if you have to pay someone to maintain it. > > That said, there are very resourceful (and resilient) sailboaters in > the 30-35 foot range who do it on $30K, but they don't have much > room, > no A/C, etc. etc. That's a bit too rustic for most of us. > > John Marshall