Empathy List Archives

JM

Jon Miller

Tue, Sep 27, 2022 5:24 PM

Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point.

Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721

This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.

Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point. Jonathan E. Miller City Attorney City of Mustang 1501 N. Mustang Road Mustang, Oklahoma 73064 Telephone: (405) 376-7746 Facsimile: (405) 376-7721 This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.

BP

Boulden, Patrick

Tue, Sep 27, 2022 8:40 PM

Oklahoma Constitution
Article 2 - Bill of Rights
Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt

"§ 13. Imprisonment for debt.

Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law."

Patrick

Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator
Office of the Tulsa City Council
175 East Second Street, Suite 475
Tulsa, OK 74103-3208
T: 918-596-1967
C: 918-284-1417
E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org

From: Jon Miller JMiller@cityofmustang.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM
To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org) oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point.

Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721

This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content.

Oklahoma Constitution Article 2 - Bill of Rights Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt "§ 13. Imprisonment for debt. Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law." Patrick Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator Office of the Tulsa City Council 175 East Second Street, Suite 475 Tulsa, OK 74103-3208 T: 918-596-1967 C: 918-284-1417 E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org<mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> From: Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point. Jonathan E. Miller City Attorney City of Mustang 1501 N. Mustang Road Mustang, Oklahoma 73064 Telephone: (405) 376-7746 Facsimile: (405) 376-7721 This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content.

BP

Boulden, Patrick

Tue, Sep 27, 2022 8:43 PM

I know this does not answer your question, but it makes no sense to fine someone who doesn't pay their bills. I think it has to be a civil suit.

Patrick Boulden |

From: Boulden, Patrick patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:41 PM
To: 'Jon Miller' JMiller@cityofmustang.org; oama (oama@lists.imla.org) oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Oklahoma Constitution
Article 2 - Bill of Rights
Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt

"§ 13. Imprisonment for debt.

Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law."

Patrick

Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator
Office of the Tulsa City Council
175 East Second Street, Suite 475
Tulsa, OK 74103-3208
T: 918-596-1967
C: 918-284-1417
E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org

From: Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.org mailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM
To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>
Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point.

Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721

This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content.

I know this does not answer your question, but it makes no sense to fine someone who doesn't pay their bills. I think it has to be a civil suit. Patrick Boulden | From: Boulden, Patrick <patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:41 PM To: 'Jon Miller' <JMiller@cityofmustang.org>; oama (oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES Oklahoma Constitution Article 2 - Bill of Rights Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt "§ 13. Imprisonment for debt. Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law." Patrick Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator Office of the Tulsa City Council 175 East Second Street, Suite 475 Tulsa, OK 74103-3208 T: 918-596-1967 C: 918-284-1417 E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org<mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> From: Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.org<mailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>) <oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>> Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point. Jonathan E. Miller City Attorney City of Mustang 1501 N. Mustang Road Mustang, Oklahoma 73064 Telephone: (405) 376-7746 Facsimile: (405) 376-7721 This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content.

ML

Matt Love

Tue, Sep 27, 2022 8:52 PM

"Back in the day" the Courts distinguished between governmental activities
and more business type activities. When a City engages in an enterprise
type activity (sewer, water, etc.), that's more of a business activity with
a contractual relationship between City and its utility customers. You
could certainly have a law that would make it a penal violation to occupy a
building without sewer / water service, but I'm with Patrick - I don't
think you can criminalize not paying a utility bill. Put differently, there
could be a penal violation that is a consequence of not paying the bill
(e.g. if your water and sewer is cutoff then you can't maintain occupancy
and continuing to occupy could be a health and safety violation), but not
for simply not paying the bill.

Matt

On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 3:43 PM Boulden, Patrick <
patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> wrote:

I know this does not answer your question, but it makes no sense to fine
someone who doesn’t pay their bills. I think it has to be a civil suit.

Patrick Boulden |

From: Boulden, Patrick patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:41 PM
To: 'Jon Miller' JMiller@cityofmustang.org; oama (oama@lists.imla.org)
oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Oklahoma Constitution

Article 2 - Bill of Rights

Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt

“§ 13. Imprisonment for debt.

Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines
and penalties imposed for the violation of law.”

Patrick

Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator

Office of the Tulsa City Council

175 East Second Street, Suite 475

Tulsa, OK 74103-3208

T: 918-596-1967

C: 918-284-1417

E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org

From: Jon Miller JMiller@cityofmustang.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM
To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org) oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for
water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can’t find
any statute directly on point.

Jonathan E. Miller

City Attorney

City of Mustang

1501 N. Mustang Road

Mustang, Oklahoma 73064

Telephone: (405) 376-7746

Facsimile: (405) 376-7721

This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that
is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please
notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments.
If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you
should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in
a loss of the attorney-client privilege.

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not
reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the
sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert
button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially
unsafe content.

--
Oama mailing list -- oama@lists.imla.org
To unsubscribe send an email to oama-leave@lists.imla.org

"Back in the day" the Courts distinguished between governmental activities and more business type activities. When a City engages in an enterprise type activity (sewer, water, etc.), that's more of a business activity with a contractual relationship between City and its utility customers. You could certainly have a law that would make it a penal violation to occupy a building without sewer / water service, but I'm with Patrick - I don't think you can criminalize not paying a utility bill. Put differently, there could be a penal violation that is a consequence of not paying the bill (e.g. if your water and sewer is cutoff then you can't maintain occupancy and continuing to occupy could be a health and safety violation), but not for simply not paying the bill. Matt On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 3:43 PM Boulden, Patrick < patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> wrote: > I know this does not answer your question, but it makes no sense to fine > someone who doesn’t pay their bills. I think it has to be a civil suit. > > > > *Patrick Boulden |* > > > > *From:* Boulden, Patrick <patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:41 PM > *To:* 'Jon Miller' <JMiller@cityofmustang.org>; oama (oama@lists.imla.org) > <oama@lists.imla.org> > *Subject:* [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES > > > > *Oklahoma Constitution* > > *Article 2 - Bill of Rights* > > *Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt* > > > > “*§ 13. Imprisonment for debt*. > > > > Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines > and penalties imposed for the violation of law.” > > > > Patrick > > > > *Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator* > > Office of the Tulsa City Council > > 175 East Second Street, Suite 475 > > Tulsa, OK 74103-3208 > > T: 918-596-1967 > > C: 918-284-1417 > > E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org > > > > *From:* Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.org> > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM > *To:* oama (oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org> > *Subject:* [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES > > > > Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for > water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can’t find > any statute directly on point. > > > > Jonathan E. Miller > > City Attorney > > City of Mustang > > 1501 N. Mustang Road > > Mustang, Oklahoma 73064 > > Telephone: (405) 376-7746 > > Facsimile: (405) 376-7721 > > > > > > This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that > is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please > notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. > If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you > should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in > a loss of the attorney-client privilege. > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the > sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert > button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially > unsafe content. > > > > CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not > reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the > sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert > button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially > unsafe content. > > > -- > Oama mailing list -- oama@lists.imla.org > To unsubscribe send an email to oama-leave@lists.imla.org >

JB

Jeff Bryant

Tue, Sep 27, 2022 9:01 PM

Pat expressed my concern as well. If they can't pay the water bill, how much more likely will they be able to pay a criminal fine. It seems you would be creating more work for the municipal court or the judges to have a series of recurring appearances by defendants to see if their financial circumstances have changed. Not sure that benefits the city in the long run.

Jeff H Bryant
Director of Legal Services
Associate General Counsel
jbryant@omag.org mailto:jbryant@omag.org

[OMAG Small Logo Smooth]
3650 S. Boulevard
Edmond, Oklahoma 73013
Phone: 405-657-1419
Fax: 405-657-1401
Cell: 405-830-8672
www.omag.org https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omag.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cksesock%40omag.org%7C7b0af7708d2145459d0008d5d005912d%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C636643644718063768&sdata=O5U4CEM0kJLxSbEQIcdB%2BtRnRqcj9gWhJquY26D8F1o%3D&reserved=0

From: Boulden, Patrick patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:43 PM
To: Boulden, Patrick patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org; 'Jon Miller' JMiller@cityofmustang.org; oama (oama@lists.imla.org) oama@lists.imla.org
Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

I know this does not answer your question, but it makes no sense to fine someone who doesn't pay their bills. I think it has to be a civil suit.

Patrick Boulden |

From: Boulden, Patrick <patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:41 PM
To: 'Jon Miller' <JMiller@cityofmustang.org mailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org>; oama (oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>
Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Oklahoma Constitution
Article 2 - Bill of Rights
Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt

"§ 13. Imprisonment for debt.

Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law."

Patrick

Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator
Office of the Tulsa City Council
175 East Second Street, Suite 475
Tulsa, OK 74103-3208
T: 918-596-1967
C: 918-284-1417
E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org

From: Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.org mailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM
To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>
Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES

Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point.

Jonathan E. Miller
City Attorney
City of Mustang
1501 N. Mustang Road
Mustang, Oklahoma 73064
Telephone: (405) 376-7746
Facsimile: (405) 376-7721

This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege.

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content.

Pat expressed my concern as well. If they can't pay the water bill, how much more likely will they be able to pay a criminal fine. It seems you would be creating more work for the municipal court or the judges to have a series of recurring appearances by defendants to see if their financial circumstances have changed. Not sure that benefits the city in the long run. Jeff H Bryant Director of Legal Services Associate General Counsel jbryant@omag.org<mailto:jbryant@omag.org> [OMAG Small Logo Smooth] 3650 S. Boulevard Edmond, Oklahoma 73013 Phone: 405-657-1419 Fax: 405-657-1401 Cell: 405-830-8672 www.omag.org<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.omag.org%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cksesock%40omag.org%7C7b0af7708d2145459d0008d5d005912d%7Cb13aadd514d84b918cf485be9d556ad7%7C1%7C0%7C636643644718063768&sdata=O5U4CEM0kJLxSbEQIcdB%2BtRnRqcj9gWhJquY26D8F1o%3D&reserved=0> From: Boulden, Patrick <patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:43 PM To: Boulden, Patrick <patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org>; 'Jon Miller' <JMiller@cityofmustang.org>; oama (oama@lists.imla.org) <oama@lists.imla.org> Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES I know this does not answer your question, but it makes no sense to fine someone who doesn't pay their bills. I think it has to be a civil suit. Patrick Boulden | From: Boulden, Patrick <patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org<mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 3:41 PM To: 'Jon Miller' <JMiller@cityofmustang.org<mailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org>>; oama (oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>) <oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>> Subject: [Oama] Re: AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES Oklahoma Constitution Article 2 - Bill of Rights Section Article 2 section 13 - Imprisonment for debt "§ 13. Imprisonment for debt. Imprisonment for debt is prohibited, except for the non-payment of fines and penalties imposed for the violation of law." Patrick Patrick Boulden | Council Administrator Office of the Tulsa City Council 175 East Second Street, Suite 475 Tulsa, OK 74103-3208 T: 918-596-1967 C: 918-284-1417 E: patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org<mailto:patrickboulden@tulsacouncil.org> From: Jon Miller <JMiller@cityofmustang.org<mailto:JMiller@cityofmustang.org>> Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2022 12:25 PM To: oama (oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>) <oama@lists.imla.org<mailto:oama@lists.imla.org>> Subject: [Oama] AUTHORITY TO CRIMINALIZE NONPAYMENT OF UTILITIES Does a municipality have power/authority to make failure to pay a bill for water, sewer or refuse a criminal offense punishable by fine? I can't find any statute directly on point. Jonathan E. Miller City Attorney City of Mustang 1501 N. Mustang Road Mustang, Oklahoma 73064 Telephone: (405) 376-7746 Facsimile: (405) 376-7721 This email is sent by the City Attorney and may contain information that is privileged or confidential. If you received this email in error, please notify the sender by reply email and delete the email and any attachments. If you are a and officer, employee or agent of the City of Mustang, you should not share this email with others. Sharing this email may result in a loss of the attorney-client privilege. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content. CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not reply, forward, click links, or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Please report using the Phish Alert button in the Outlook Desktop Client if this message contains potentially unsafe content.