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Cruising America's Great Loop and other inland routes
View all threadsSeveral previous thread subjects, generally negative to the AGLCA
Administrator Bill, I'm probably over the size limit here. Yet again. Please bear with me!
There's a fine line between critical thinking and mis-information. I think there's been some mis-understanding posted on this list about the AGLCA. Please consider this an "in-all-fairness" response for those "newbies" that may be reading this.
"In all fairness..."
...like Ralph, I have been a long-time member of this list and of the AGLCA. Sanctuary and crew completed the Great Loop cruise in 2007. We benefited greatly from our membership in the AGLCA. There is no question that both this list and the T&T list have lost participation over the past few years, at least in some measure because of Georgs' rules and restrictions. Nothing is perfect. IN MY OPINION, the AGLCA is by far the better resource for planning and doing the Great Loop Cruise than this list. Ralph was one of the only Great Loop Cruisers to regularly post here. Now that he has completed his loop, I can not think of any current looper who does. Very few "Loopers" take the time to post in multiple places. When we were doing the Loop, I only took the time to do that when I thought there was a safety issue that needed wider exposure, but not on marinas, anchorages, restaurants, water levels, weeds or great POIs. Yes, there is occasional useful discussion here, but I generally see both lists every day, and IN MY OPINION by far the most up-to-date, complete and useful information on the Great Loop Cruise is on the AGLCA site. I re-emphasize, IN MY OPINION.
...it is true that the Kromer's "own" the AGLCA. It is certainly true it is a commercial effort. Anyone who knew the AGLCA when the Stobs formed it should know that was always the case. It's not a secret, and never has been. It is not true that the Kromers "make their living" from it. Steve's primary business is KTI Industries, not AGLCA. At $50 per year - maybe more now; I'm an AGLCA life member - I think the cost of membership is more than reasonable for the value people doing the Great Loop Cruise receive for their membership fee.
...I totally agree that the AGLCA forum is a poor tool for the AGLCA audience. The taxonomy of ay forum is very flexible, but in the AGLCA case, too subjective, too complicated and too tedious to learn. It takes a long time to learn it, and the membership (audience) turns over too quickly for that learning curve to take place, stabilize and become effective. For that reason, the vast majority of posts actually wind up in their "General" category. Yes, I had that conversation in depth with Steve two years ago. I lost. Oh well; sometimes in life, we don't get what we think is best.
...I frankly did not understand the comment in this thread sequence that someone had lost contact with friends because of the AGLCA forum. I get the AGLCA "daily digest" every morning. I see every post that was made in the preceding 24 hr period, just as I did with the old Yahoo Group "daily digest." Yes, I have lost contact with some of the "Class of 2007" Loopers I met when we did the loop, but that's because they're no longer active in AGLCA, some no longer active in boating; it's not because of the forum. And yes, searching for a specific topic is difficult, but it was difficult on the old Yahoo Group, too. And if a user does have a patience and tolerance for learning "computer things," then the forum can offer some advantages over a Yahoo Group. Obscure in the case of the AGLCA, perhaps; but possible. So at least IN MY OPINION, things are not all bad; the limitations are just different. Change is hard.
Thanks for listening.
Jim
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436
I must agree with Jim. I do not understand the AGLCA bashing that has been
occurred. IMHO The organization is the best current repository of looping
information and I use them all. It represented us when "incarpcerated" by
the fish barrier and has taken the lead on other issues germane to best
represent the "voice of loopers". I am also a life member, platinum
looperand very active on Active Captain, MTOA, T&T, etc. but still
enjoy the
AGLCA forum in spite of the change to the current more awkward format.
There was never any effort to conceal profit making from the membership..
There is no "free lunch" and I doubt much money is made by the Kromers via
the Organization and if they do, fine as that assures the organization will
continue to provide an informational platform for Loopers.
Joe
On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:49 AM, Jim Healy gilwellbear@gmail.com wrote:
Administrator Bill, I'm probably over the size limit here. Yet again.
Please bear with me!
There's a fine line between critical thinking and mis-information. I
think there's been some mis-understanding posted on this list about the
AGLCA. Please consider this an "in-all-fairness" response for those
"newbies" that may be reading this.
"In all fairness..."
...like Ralph, I have been a long-time member of this list and of the
AGLCA. Sanctuary and crew completed the Great Loop cruise in 2007. We
benefited greatly from our membership in the AGLCA. There is no question
that both this list and the T&T list have lost participation over the past
few years, at least in some measure because of Georgs' rules and
restrictions. Nothing is perfect. IN MY OPINION, the AGLCA is by far the
better resource for planning and doing the Great Loop Cruise than this
list. Ralph was one of the only Great Loop Cruisers to regularly post
here. Now that he has completed his loop, I can not think of any current
looper who does. Very few "Loopers" take the time to post in multiple
places. When we were doing the Loop, I only took the time to do that when
I thought there was a safety issue that needed wider exposure, but not on
marinas, anchorages, restaurants, water levels, weeds or great POIs. Yes,
there is occasional useful discussion here, but I generally see both lists
every day, and IN MY OPINION by far the most up-to-date, complete and
useful information on the Great Loop Cruise is on the AGLCA site. I
re-emphasize, IN MY OPINION.
...it is true that the Kromer's "own" the AGLCA. It is certainly true it
is a commercial effort. Anyone who knew the AGLCA when the Stobs formed it
should know that was always the case. It's not a secret, and never has
been. It is not true that the Kromers "make their living" from it.
Steve's primary business is KTI Industries, not AGLCA. At $50 per year -
maybe more now; I'm an AGLCA life member - I think the cost of membership
is more than reasonable for the value people doing the Great Loop Cruise
receive for their membership fee.
...I totally agree that the AGLCA forum is a poor tool for the AGLCA
audience. The taxonomy of ay forum is very flexible, but in the AGLCA
case, too subjective, too complicated and too tedious to learn. It takes a
long time to learn it, and the membership (audience) turns over too quickly
for that learning curve to take place, stabilize and become effective. For
that reason, the vast majority of posts actually wind up in their "General"
category. Yes, I had that conversation in depth with Steve two years ago.
I lost. Oh well; sometimes in life, we don't get what we think is best.
...I frankly did not understand the comment in this thread sequence that
someone had lost contact with friends because of the AGLCA forum. I get
the AGLCA "daily digest" every morning. I see every post that was made in
the preceding 24 hr period, just as I did with the old Yahoo Group "daily
digest." Yes, I have lost contact with some of the "Class of 2007" Loopers
I met when we did the loop, but that's because they're no longer active in
AGLCA, some no longer active in boating; it's not because of the forum.
And yes, searching for a specific topic is difficult, but it was difficult
on the old Yahoo Group, too. And if a user does have a patience and
tolerance for learning "computer things," then the forum can offer some
advantages over a Yahoo Group. Obscure in the case of the AGLCA, perhaps;
but possible. So at least IN MY OPINION, things are not all bad; the
limitations are just different. Change is hard.
Thanks for listening.
Jim
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436
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--
Joe Pica
Carolyn Ann GH N-37
MTOA #3813, AGLCA #5485
http://carolynann-n37.blogspot.com/
Jim,
WELL PUT AND A THREE FOLD AMEN, AMEN AND AMEN from us.
John and Judy Gill
On Jul 10, 2013, at 10:49 AM, Jim Healy wrote:
Administrator Bill, I'm probably over the size limit here. Yet again. Please bear with me!
There's a fine line between critical thinking and mis-information. I think there's been some mis-understanding posted on this list about the AGLCA. Please consider this an "in-all-fairness" response for those "newbies" that may be reading this.
"In all fairness..."
...like Ralph, I have been a long-time member of this list and of the AGLCA. Sanctuary and crew completed the Great Loop cruise in 2007. We benefited greatly from our membership in the AGLCA. There is no question that both this list and the T&T list have lost participation over the past few years, at least in some measure because of Georgs' rules and restrictions. Nothing is perfect. IN MY OPINION, the AGLCA is by far the better resource for planning and doing the Great Loop Cruise than this list. Ralph was one of the only Great Loop Cruisers to regularly post here. Now that he has completed his loop, I can not think of any current looper who does. Very few "Loopers" take the time to post in multiple places. When we were doing the Loop, I only took the time to do that when I thought there was a safety issue that needed wider exposure, but not on marinas, anchorages, restaurants, water levels, weeds or great POIs. Yes, there is occasional useful discussion here, but I generally see both lists every day, and IN MY OPINION by far the most up-to-date, complete and useful information on the Great Loop Cruise is on the AGLCA site. I re-emphasize, IN MY OPINION.
...it is true that the Kromer's "own" the AGLCA. It is certainly true it is a commercial effort. Anyone who knew the AGLCA when the Stobs formed it should know that was always the case. It's not a secret, and never has been. It is not true that the Kromers "make their living" from it. Steve's primary business is KTI Industries, not AGLCA. At $50 per year - maybe more now; I'm an AGLCA life member - I think the cost of membership is more than reasonable for the value people doing the Great Loop Cruise receive for their membership fee.
...I totally agree that the AGLCA forum is a poor tool for the AGLCA audience. The taxonomy of ay forum is very flexible, but in the AGLCA case, too subjective, too complicated and too tedious to learn. It takes a long time to learn it, and the membership (audience) turns over too quickly for that learning curve to take place, stabilize and become effective. For that reason, the vast majority of posts actually wind up in their "General" category. Yes, I had that conversation in depth with Steve two years ago. I lost. Oh well; sometimes in life, we don't get what we think is best.
...I frankly did not understand the comment in this thread sequence that someone had lost contact with friends because of the AGLCA forum. I get the AGLCA "daily digest" every morning. I see every post that was made in the preceding 24 hr period, just as I did with the old Yahoo Group "daily digest." Yes, I have lost contact with some of the "Class of 2007" Loopers I met when we did the loop, but that's because they're no longer active in AGLCA, some no longer active in boating; it's not because of the forum. And yes, searching for a specific topic is difficult, but it was difficult on the old Yahoo Group, too. And if a user does have a patience and tolerance for learning "computer things," then the forum can offer some advantages over a Yahoo Group. Obscure in the case of the AGLCA, perhaps; but possible. So at least IN MY OPINION, things are not all bad; the limitations are just different. Change is hard.
Thanks for listening.
Jim
Peg and Jim Healy aboard Sanctuary
Currently at Rock Creek, Pasadena, MD
http://gilwellbear.wordpress.com
Monk 36 Hull #132
MMSI #367042570
AGLCA #3767
MTOA #3436
http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/listinfo/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com
To modify your Great-Loop subscription options (change email address,
unsubscribe, etc.) go to: http://lists.trawlering.com/mailman/options/great-loop_lists.trawlering.com