Avoid the 53181A; too limited. Both the 53131A / 53132A are "universal"
counters so they do frequency, period, time interval, and lots more.

They are very useful counters. The rs232 talk-only mode makes it very
easy to collect data on a PC. No programming required. The 53132A has a
bit higher resolution than a 53131A so that's a plus. But if you plan to
use the external reference the 53131A accepts 5/10 MHz while the 53132A,
last I checked, will only accept 10 MHz.

A lower cost alternative is the TAPR/TICC. If you already have a
commercial counter I would recommend looking at the TICC as your next
counter. As this is your first counter I would recommend a 53131/53132
over the TICC. The TICC is "headless" and has only hard-coded CMOS
digital inputs. The hp units have all the physical front panel buttons,
status LED's and live display. Plus the comprehensive input conditioning
features. And useful frequency gate time or digits modes, etc. Lots of
cool features. Built-in statistics too.

The 5371A is a beast. But it you can get it working it has 10x better
performance than a 53132A.

/tvb

On 10/22/2020 4:50 AM, Giorgio Barinetti wrote:

Hi

53181 = single channel 400 ps counter
53131 = dual channel 400 ps counter
53132 = dual channel 100 ps counter

5370 (when working) = dual channel 20 ps counter

The gotcha is that none of them are good enough to properly measure 1
second ADEV on a good ( but still could be cheap ) OCXO. A mixer based
setup is a cheap way to get things done, even with a 5335.

The 531xx counters all share a couple of issues:

1. The power supply was made by who knows who and their quality is not
   the best. Good news is that the power supply out of a (cheap) 53181 will
   swap over to revive an expensive 53132.

2. They have a fan, it plugs with dust. When that happens it gets hot inside
   the cabinet. Things (like the power supply) die as a result.

3. They have a VFD display. It’s a nice one, but they do wear out. Replacing
   them is problematic.

4. They have a fancy setup to add digits to a frequency measurement. It
   can lead you astray. It also tends to go deaf right at 10 MHz. There are app
   notes out there that explain the details.

5. With any counter, a good external reference is the way to go for “Time Nut”
   grade measurements.

None of that is to say they are a bad counter, far from it. I have a number
of them and have been using them here and at work for decades. The 532xx
counters are the latest and greatest. They are on eBay, but not cheap.

Bob

I am just curious how viable would it be to use a 531xx series counter with Timelab if the counter display has failed ?

Thanks in advance

Mark Spencer
mark@alignedsolutions.com
604 762 4099

Hi,

Small correction, 5371A and 5370A are different beasts. The 5370A has 20
ps resolution and the 5371A has 200 ps resolution. So, the 5371A is
about the same performance as the 53132A at 150 ps resolution. I work
with 5372A which is essentially a 5371A with hardware histogram and a
few other things.

I have both 5370A and 5371A.

The 5371A and 5372A actually can do linear regression processing for
frequency estimation, a historic note that predates this capability of
the Philips/Fluke/Pendulum counters to the best of my knowledge.

PS. I also have a 5370C, which is a flat-bed scanner from HP.

Cheers,
Magnus

On 2020-10-22 15:33, Tom Van Baak wrote:

Hi

Provided you can get a few key parameters set up (= enable the serial
port / set baud rates), it should run just fine without the display. You would
need to do some GPIB fiddling to set various modes.

Bob

Mark,

Yes, the VFD on those counters do seem to have a limited lifetime. I
have some 20 years old that are getting hard to read in bright light.

If the VFD dies, yes, the counter will continue to measure just fine,
not only all the serial talk-only data output, but the full capability
of SCPI over GPIB. TimeLab won't know the difference. The downside is
that the custom little annunciation icons inside the VFD won't be
visible and those are sometimes quite useful, for example, to know the
status of "ext ref", or even the M/Hz/u/s units.

Here are some other ideas:

1. Just replace the dead / dying VFD. You can find NOS on eBay. Taka has
   done this.

2. Use an Arduino or similar to capture the digital signals to the
   display board containing the failed VFD to create a mirror of the
   display. A multi-digit LCD module should work. Or try one of those nice
   looking programmable OLED pixel displays.

Or, for a bit of nostalgia, not to mention a top spot on Hackaday, use
Nixie tubes for the readout and NE-2 bulbs for the status icons. Or get
modern and output the display over BLE and write a phone app as the display.

3. Instead of replacing the front panel readout, instead do all your
   comms over SCPI, to the point where you have created a virtual
   instrument, not unlike some of the logic analyzer or 'scope PC apps.
   This solution would be very welcome by lots time-nuts. It means we could
   fully operate our 53131/53132 counters with the VFD disabled. The
   downsize is that it requires a GPIB (Prologix) adapter.

/tvb

On 10/22/2020 7:22 AM, Mark Spencer wrote:

As a newbie to nuttery I would like to throw my brief experiences into the
mix.
When I started down this slippery slope I was using a HP5386A frequency
counter because I had one.
It was entertaining for a short period of time.
I then acquired a HP5372A which for hooking up to Timelabs and running Adev
plots did not yield the results I was hoping for as the resolution is
rather coarse. I think it does some neat things standalone but not really
the solution to run Timelabs and make Adev plots and have fun.
So then I found a 5370B on fleabay.
I managed to get one that seems to work well. It is measuring frequency
differences of 30-40 ps as far as I can tell.
So I am happy.
Eventually I will figure all this stuff out.
Good luck and have fun.

Dave

On Thu, Oct 22, 2020 at 8:25 AM Magnus Danielson magnus@rubidium.se wrote:

--
72 de Dave
VE7HR

On 10/22/20 8:29 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote:

While I love my Prologix adapters, I wonder if one could implement the
protocol using GPIO pins on something like a Beagleboard or Arduino clone?

(yes, as a product, with the right connector and line driver/receivers,
etc. - it would cost the same as a Prologix... but as a hack...)

After all GPIB is a very old standard, and was developed back in the day
of 1 MHz logic. I think you could do the handshaking in software - punch
the bits one by one, assert DAV, etc.
Listener reads bits one by one, then asserts the ACK or NAK

(Aieee.. Wikipedia says it was supported by the Commodore PET... there's
a challenge for you)

In days of yore + DOS, I implemented a GPIB control by bit-banging a
parallel printer port.
Those were the days

Andy
www.g4jnt.com

http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
Virus-free.
www.avg.com
http://www.avg.com/email-signature?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Thu, 22 Oct 2020 at 17:59, jimlux jimlux@earthlink.net wrote: