Discussion and technical support related to USRP, UHD, RFNoC
View all threadsHi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
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USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
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Hi Vladica,
The PCIe interface we use can't deal with the raw data rates of 2x
200MS/s [1], and you can't have two of them. So, that won't work.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1] https://kb.ettus.com/X300/X310#Choosing_a_Host_Interface
On 19.10.2016 13:11, Vladica Sark wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Markus,
But if I get the 2x 10G Ethernet, it has enough bandwidth for the RAW
2x200MS/s rate.
Is this supported by the radio?
Do I see them as 2 separate radios, since they would have separate IP
addresses?
Any idea about the latency when using 10G Ethernet?
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:15, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
The PCIe interface we use can't deal with the raw data rates of 2x
200MS/s [1], and you can't have two of them. So, that won't work.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1] https://kb.ettus.com/X300/X310#Choosing_a_Host_Interface
On 19.10.2016 13:11, Vladica Sark wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Vladica,
On 19.10.2016 13:18, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Markus,
But if I get the 2x 10G Ethernet, it has enough bandwidth for the RAW
2x200MS/s rate.
Is this supported by the radio?
Yes!
Do I see them as 2 separate radios, since they would have separate IP
addresses?
No; you'd just specify a second IP address; see the "Dual 10 Gigabit
Ethernet" section in the manual [1].
Any idea about the latency when using 10G Ethernet?
Not really much higher than PCIe in most usage scenarios. Your mileage
might vary, but think of 100µs up. It really depends mostly on your host
computer and its OS, so general numbers are really impossible to give. I
haven't done any latency testing with dual 10GE, and it probably doubles
the latency.
In many applications, latency can be "hidden" by usage of timed
commands; are you familiar with those? what's your application?
Best regards,
Marcus
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:15, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
The PCIe interface we use can't deal with the raw data rates of 2x
200MS/s [1], and you can't have two of them. So, that won't work.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1] https://kb.ettus.com/X300/X310#Choosing_a_Host_Interface
On 19.10.2016 13:11, Vladica Sark wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick
calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Marcus,
I use the radios for ranging and localization applications mainly. I
schedule basically the transmissions and receptions, using timed
samples. I have tried timed commands on N210 and B205mini, but on N210 I
get relatively large latency, which is variable and not consistent.
Situation with B204mini is slightly better.
BTW, PCIe x4 should be able to support the rate of 12.8 Gb/s. Is the
bottleneck in the radio itself?
BR,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:24, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
On 19.10.2016 13:18, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Markus,
But if I get the 2x 10G Ethernet, it has enough bandwidth for the RAW
2x200MS/s rate.
Is this supported by the radio?
Yes!
Do I see them as 2 separate radios, since they would have separate IP
addresses?
No; you'd just specify a second IP address; see the "Dual 10 Gigabit
Ethernet" section in the manual [1].
Any idea about the latency when using 10G Ethernet?
Not really much higher than PCIe in most usage scenarios. Your mileage
might vary, but think of 100µs up. It really depends mostly on your host
computer and its OS, so general numbers are really impossible to give. I
haven't done any latency testing with dual 10GE, and it probably doubles
the latency.
In many applications, latency can be "hidden" by usage of timed
commands; are you familiar with those? what's your application?
Best regards,
Marcus
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:15, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
The PCIe interface we use can't deal with the raw data rates of 2x
200MS/s [1], and you can't have two of them. So, that won't work.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1] https://kb.ettus.com/X300/X310#Choosing_a_Host_Interface
On 19.10.2016 13:11, Vladica Sark wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick
calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Vladica,
yes, the latency over network and USB is random. So that's why you'd
need the absolute times you get by issuing stream commands – you don't
really need the estimate within microseconds of signal reception, you
just need to know the delay between the RX and TX stream's first sample,
right?
BTW, PCIe x4 should be able to support the rate of 12.8 Gb/s. Is the
bottleneck in the radio itself?
No, the radio internally doesn't make a difference which interface you
use for the most part.
MXI, the external PCIe bus used[1], is based on PCIe 1.1. A PCIe gen1
four-lane link has a link capacity of 8Gb/s, which is enough for the 6.4
Gb/s of 1x 200MS/s SC16, but not enough for twice that rate.
The real bottleneck here will be the PC: The PCIe driver the way we use
it is less capable of distributing workload across multiple CPU cores
(it's rather optimized for low-latency and LabVIEW usage), and hence,
you will have a hard time configuring a system to even handle 1x 200MS/s
via PCIe.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1]
http://www.pxisa.org/userfiles/files/Specifications/PXIEXPRESS_HW_SPEC_R1.PDF
On 19.10.2016 19:14, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Marcus,
I use the radios for ranging and localization applications mainly. I
schedule basically the transmissions and receptions, using timed
samples. I have tried timed commands on N210 and B205mini, but on N210
I get relatively large latency, which is variable and not consistent.
Situation with B204mini is slightly better.
BTW, PCIe x4 should be able to support the rate of 12.8 Gb/s. Is the
bottleneck in the radio itself?
BR,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:24, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
On 19.10.2016 13:18, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Markus,
But if I get the 2x 10G Ethernet, it has enough bandwidth for the RAW
2x200MS/s rate.
Is this supported by the radio?
Yes!
Do I see them as 2 separate radios, since they would have separate IP
addresses?
No; you'd just specify a second IP address; see the "Dual 10 Gigabit
Ethernet" section in the manual [1].
Any idea about the latency when using 10G Ethernet?
Not really much higher than PCIe in most usage scenarios. Your mileage
might vary, but think of 100µs up. It really depends mostly on your host
computer and its OS, so general numbers are really impossible to give. I
haven't done any latency testing with dual 10GE, and it probably doubles
the latency.
In many applications, latency can be "hidden" by usage of timed
commands; are you familiar with those? what's your application?
Best regards,
Marcus
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:15, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
The PCIe interface we use can't deal with the raw data rates of 2x
200MS/s [1], and you can't have two of them. So, that won't work.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1] https://kb.ettus.com/X300/X310#Choosing_a_Host_Interface
On 19.10.2016 13:11, Vladica Sark wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not
support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick
calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I
have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Marcus,
On 19.10.2016 19:24, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, the latency over network and USB is random. So that's why you'd
need the absolute times you get by issuing stream commands – you don't
really need the estimate within microseconds of signal reception, you
just need to know the delay between the RX and TX stream's first sample,
right?
Yes basically.
For estimation of time when the signal arrived, I use timestamps, and
this works quite well.
The problem is when I want to change the gain (I use xcvr2450 + n210,
and also b205) between two time slots, in which I receive signals from 2
different stations. For this operation a hundred to few hundred useconds
are required plus some random delay. Since my time slots are ca. 200 us,
this is a bit of an issue. Anyway, having a lot of bits on the A/D,
solves the problem. I do not have the optimal gain for each time slot,
but that is not a huge issue. I make only coarse adjustment of the gain,
just to avoid clipping of the signal in any time slot. And of course
this is performed in not used time slots. In semi-static scenarios, this
works well.
BTW, PCIe x4 should be able to support the rate of 12.8 Gb/s. Is the
bottleneck in the radio itself?
No, the radio internally doesn't make a difference which interface you
use for the most part.
MXI, the external PCIe bus used[1], is based on PCIe 1.1. A PCIe gen1
four-lane link has a link capacity of 8Gb/s, which is enough for the 6.4
Gb/s of 1x 200MS/s SC16, but not enough for twice that rate.
I thought it was at least Gen 2.0 or 3.0.
Best regards,
Vladica
The real bottleneck here will be the PC: The PCIe driver the way we use
it is less capable of distributing workload across multiple CPU cores
(it's rather optimized for low-latency and LabVIEW usage), and hence,
you will have a hard time configuring a system to even handle 1x 200MS/s
via PCIe.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1]
http://www.pxisa.org/userfiles/files/Specifications/PXIEXPRESS_HW_SPEC_R1.PDF
On 19.10.2016 19:14, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Marcus,
I use the radios for ranging and localization applications mainly. I
schedule basically the transmissions and receptions, using timed
samples. I have tried timed commands on N210 and B205mini, but on N210
I get relatively large latency, which is variable and not consistent.
Situation with B204mini is slightly better.
BTW, PCIe x4 should be able to support the rate of 12.8 Gb/s. Is the
bottleneck in the radio itself?
BR,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:24, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
On 19.10.2016 13:18, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Markus,
But if I get the 2x 10G Ethernet, it has enough bandwidth for the RAW
2x200MS/s rate.
Is this supported by the radio?
Yes!
Do I see them as 2 separate radios, since they would have separate IP
addresses?
No; you'd just specify a second IP address; see the "Dual 10 Gigabit
Ethernet" section in the manual [1].
Any idea about the latency when using 10G Ethernet?
Not really much higher than PCIe in most usage scenarios. Your mileage
might vary, but think of 100µs up. It really depends mostly on your host
computer and its OS, so general numbers are really impossible to give. I
haven't done any latency testing with dual 10GE, and it probably doubles
the latency.
In many applications, latency can be "hidden" by usage of timed
commands; are you familiar with those? what's your application?
Best regards,
Marcus
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:15, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
The PCIe interface we use can't deal with the raw data rates of 2x
200MS/s [1], and you can't have two of them. So, that won't work.
Best regards,
Marcus
[1] https://kb.ettus.com/X300/X310#Choosing_a_Host_Interface
On 19.10.2016 13:11, Vladica Sark wrote:
Thanks for the valuable info. I didn't know that PCIe does not
support
2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Vladica
On 19.10.2016 13:08, Marcus Müller via USRP-users wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, for 2x 200 MS/s you need the dual-10GE connection (quick
calcution:
2*(16 b [I] + 16 b [Q])/S * 200e6 S/s = 12.8 Gb/s ).
PCIe doesn't offer 2x200MS/s
Best regards,
Marcus
On 19.10.2016 12:01, Vladica Sark via USRP-users wrote:
Hi there,
If I want to connect the X310 using 10 GbitE interface, do I
have to
connect the both cables in order to achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels?
What about PCI interface? Can I achieve 200 MSps on the both
channels
using this interface?
BR,
Vladica
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
USRP-users mailing list
USRP-users@lists.ettus.com
http://lists.ettus.com/mailman/listinfo/usrp-users_lists.ettus.com
Hi Vladica,
On 19.10.2016 20:07, Vladica Sark wrote:
Hi Marcus,
On 19.10.2016 19:24, Marcus Müller wrote:
Hi Vladica,
yes, the latency over network and USB is random. So that's why you'd
need the absolute times you get by issuing stream commands – you don't
really need the estimate within microseconds of signal reception, you
just need to know the delay between the RX and TX stream's first sample,
right?
Yes basically.
For estimation of time when the signal arrived, I use timestamps, and
this works quite well.
Combine that with specifying when samples will be sent, and you've got
your deterministic RX/TX delay. By doing so, the variable transport
delay becomes irrelevant.
The problem is when I want to change the gain (I use xcvr2450 + n210,
and also b205) between two time slots, in which I receive signals from
2 different stations. For this operation a hundred to few hundred
useconds are required plus some random delay. Since my time slots are
ca. 200 us, this is a bit of an issue.
Indeed. That should be possible by using a timed command on the N210,
but it won't be possible on the B205, I guess.
Anyway, having a lot of bits on the A/D, solves the problem. I do not
have the optimal gain for each time slot, but that is not a huge
issue. I make only coarse adjustment of the gain, just to avoid
clipping of the signal in any time slot. And of course this is
performed in not used time slots. In semi-static scenarios, this works
well.
Indeed! What are your bandwidths? The ADC of the N210 has nominally
14bits, but of those, roughly 12 are effectively available, but
oversampling usually saves the day and gives you something close to the
full 16 bit of dynamic range the samples going to your PC have. On the
AD936x of the B2xx series, the ADC is less potent, but with appropriate
preselection filtering, the noise figure is probably better than that on
the (a bit dated) XCVR2450's LNA.
BTW, PCIe x4 should be able to support the rate of 12.8 Gb/s. Is the
bottleneck in the radio itself?
No, the radio internally doesn't make a difference which interface you
use for the most part.
MXI, the external PCIe bus used[1], is based on PCIe 1.1. A PCIe gen1
four-lane link has a link capacity of 8Gb/s, which is enough for the 6.4
Gb/s of 1x 200MS/s SC16, but not enough for twice that rate.
I thought it was at least Gen 2.0 or 3.0.
Nope, sorry.
Best regards,
Marcus